My New LP Traditional has to go back!!

[mr. moon]

It has to go back ASAP!!!

D@mmit!!!!









Lame.

I give up.

-mr moon

[Leña_Costoso]

Henry would not be pleased.

He'd be ticked in fact. Because you're supposed to suck it in and accept what he gives you, and not complain about little things like structural integrity. Stiff upper lip and all.

[bilbal]

Man, I'm due to take delivery of a LP Standard Faded and all I have been seeing since I decided to order it is stuff like this. Kinda bummin' a bit. I feel for ya man. It stinks that she has to go back. I'm gonna keep my head up and hope for the best though because I want a LP BADLY!!!!

Good luck. I hope everything turns out great for you.

bilbal

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by bilbal

Man, I'm due to take delivery of a LP Standard Faded and all I have been seeing since I decided to order it is stuff like this. Kinda bummin' a bit. I feel for ya man. It stinks that she has to go back. I'm gonna keep my head up and hope for the best though because I want a LP BADLY!!!!

Good luck. I hope everything turns out great for you.

bilbal

Eh, it's just a frikkin' guitar. I appreciate your thoughts, but it is what it is.

What I guess really surprises me is that this is the worst damage I've ever personally seen on a new guitar ...that I or someone I know have purchased, and it's also the most expensive guitar I've ever purchased. Sucks.

-mr moon

[emejia]

What happened? That's the kind of damage I worry about when I change or tighten strap buttons, or drop the guitar and it hits the strap button (which has only happened once with a tele - no damage).

[Wallace]

That sucks on a new guitar.

[emejia]

Originally Posted by Wallace

That sucks on a new guitar.

True. But it's not mentioned on his list of three minor defects he listed on a previous post. And it's not likely to be something that would be overlooked. So, unless the body spontaneously split, it's probably not attributable to poor workmanship. Either way, it certainly sucks.

[samuel]

What have I missed here and where is the defect ?

All I see is a seam, it's a multi piece back.

[The Stumble]

it's a multi piece back.

that is correct

[emejia]

Originally Posted by samuel

What have I missed here and where is the defect ?

All I see is a seam, it's a multi piece back.

Click on thumbnail pics, wait for large pics. I think it's more than a seam. It's quite literally a two piece back now.

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by emejia

True. But it's not mentioned on his list of three minor defects he listed on a previous post. And it's not likely to be something that would be overlooked. So, unless the body spontaneously split, it's probably not attributable to poor workmanship. Either way, it certainly sucks.

Nope. It was missed, as it was in an area that is not in direct line of sight when you're playing it. The other minor defects were more noticeable because they were in areas that you're more likely to look at.

Luckily, the camera flash really highlighted the damage. The way that I discovered the cracks originally was noticing the smooth line in the finish on the back of the guitar, and then followed it with my thumbnail. Sound odd that I could miss something like this, but if you're sitting down with the guitar, it's out of sight completely. I haven't even used a strap with it yet.

I can't imagine the type of hit it would have to take to create a smooth finish-less line like it has on the back.... If it were due to breakage, you'd expect a rough crack.

Humidity maybe?

...Not even winter here yet.

2 more weeks to go for winter to start here in da hinterlund.

-mr moon

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by samuel

What have I missed here and where is the defect ?

All I see is a seam, it's a multi piece back.

On the back, it is a smooth seem that has a hairline crack running to the strap button. At the strap button area on the rear of the guitar, it opens up to a rough crack and you can see "into" the guitar, as it were, into the wood.

I just showed it to my wife, and she said "what? That's just a seem." then I told here to really look at it by holding the guitar vertically (with the headstock resting on the floor) and pass her finger over it, which she did, and even managed to get her fingernail into the crack. She said, "huh it just looks like a seem, but it's actually a crack, I can see how you missed that."

Then she said "Sorry, honey."

I bet Gibson won't do that for me.



-mr moon

[Kutt]

Originally Posted by Leña_Costoso

Henry would not be pleased.

He'd be ticked in fact. Because you're supposed to suck it in and accept what he gives you, and not complain about little things like structural integrity. Stiff upper lip and all.

+1. I hope to God mine is OK, but I'm prepared for the worst. Got one due in tomorrow.

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by Kutt

+1. I hope to God mine is OK, but I'm prepared for the worst. Got one due in tomorrow.

I'm sure yours will be fine. I have a strong legacy of "Murphy's Law" running in my life, just got to deal with it.

BTW: MF has sent me a return label. I'm done dealing with them. A detailed visual inspection probably would have caught this. Shouldn't the people at GIBSON QC have caught this?



-mr moon

[Thunder]

1) That SUCKS!

Then she said "Sorry, honey."

2) Wives ROCK!

3) Don't give up. Return it to MF then give Saul a call...do it, do it!

[The Stumble]

Shouldn't the people at GIBSON QC have caught this?

[led zep fan]

Ridiculous...

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by Thunder

1) That SUCKS!


2) Wives ROCK!

3) Don't give up. Return it to MF then give Saul a call...do it, do it!

Excuse me while I demonstrate my ignorance ...but, who is Saul?

-mr moon

[mr. moon]

Here's what MF has to say when I asked them about their QC people catching this:

"Thanks. Unfortunately we have trade agreements in place that prevent us from inspecting the package. Gibson and many of our other top manufacturers want us to send the guitar factory sealed straight from our warehouse. I apologize and also wish that we could have more to do with Gibson's quality control. Please feel free to contact us if you have any more questions or concerns."

Gibson?

Are you listening?

Hellllloooooooooooooooooo.......?



-mr moon

[Thunder]

Excuse me while I demonstrate my ignorance ...but, who is Saul?

No worries. Saul owns Centre City music in San Diego, do a search here on the forum or find his info in the dealer's boulevard. I'm SURE you won't have any QC problems if you buy from him...plus, he's a great dude! Wait a few minutes and you get a bunch of members +1 the Saul option.

[Kutt]

MF cares more about your problem than Gibson ever will. I was one of the unfortunate recipients of a "maraca effect" Les Paul Studio a couple years ago. It was too late to return the instrument to MF before I realized what the issue was. Gibson never returned my emails, though I could have called them on the phone. But I knew how that call would have ended...

As far as MF inspecting your guitar, I personally PREFER a factory sealed box when mail ordering.

[StoneFreeFuzz1]

Wow mr.moon I'm sorry. I know how much you were digging it too, My condolences bro.

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by Kutt

As far as MF inspecting your guitar, I personally PREFER a factory sealed box when mail ordering.

Perhaps ...but if you were in my shoes right now you may have a different perspective and opinion about it.



-mr moon

[Jeff]

The chances of this happening with another guitar are exceedingly small. If you like that model, I'd order another one.

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by StoneFreeFuzz1

Wow mr.moon I'm sorry. I know how much you were digging it too, My condolences bro.

Thanks. Not much more to say at this point about it.... Kinda makes me appreciate the sweet deal I got my '92 Studio for ($350 used and some computer work for the dude selling it).

Anyone know of any *quality* Gibson dealers in the Minneapolis, MN area? I think I'll probably return to the old "play before you pay" adage rather than order another one online. If all online Gibson dealers have to send out product in the factory sealed boxes, this situation could very easily repeat itself....

-mr moon

[Kutt]

I may be in your shoes in no less than 24 hours good sir.

Gonna do some sort of American Indian good luck ritual dance before I open the box and hope that their QC guy got a good night's rest the night before mine left Nashville.

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by Jeff

The chances of this happening with another guitar are exceedingly small. If you like that model, I'd order another one.

Did I forget to mention that the guitar I bought from MF right before this one also had a manufacturer's defect and had to be returned? The tailpiece anchors were not seated well enough into the body of the guitar because the holes were over-sized for the anchors. When I took it to be checked out by my local luthier (G. Hoffman Guitars, Mpls, MN), the tailpiece pull out when they brought the strings up to tension. My local luthier (also an authorized Gibson repair/service center) said that the problem probably follows the entire model line (Epiphone Prophecy EX) and to stear clear of it. MF gave me a couple hundred off the cost of the Gibby for this, which is good customer service, but crappy product.

...Anyways, my point is that this happens to folks such as myself more often than you may think.

If I could find a dealer who would look it over before shipping it to me, I might be willing to take the risk.

-mr moon

[BillyBling]

Gibson.......It's gonna be worse than the Norlin Years.......

[JWest]

Originally Posted by Kutt

I may be in your shoes in no less than 24 hours good sir.

Gonna do some sort of American Indian good luck ritual dance before I open the box and hope that their QC guy got a good night's rest the night before mine left Nashville.

See, this is what frusterates me! When I finally saved up enough money for my standard I had to drive around from shop to shop and even wait for places to get new lp's in so I could look at them and play them.
I'm sure i'm not the only one who wants to be able to see a guitar and play it in person rather than order it sight unseen and take a chance and hope the guitar I ordered has a good top and plays just as good. And now on top of all that you have qc you have to worry about as well!

[led zep fan]

Originally Posted by BillyBling

Gibson.......It's gonna be worse than the Norlin Years.......

But with much higher prices...

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by mr. moon

If I could find a dealer who would look it over before shipping it to me, I might be willing to take the risk.

This is possible.

While I certainly understand your frustration, there are numerous reports of people that own or have played these (both on this forum as well as others) that have found no problems with them. Gibson has been doing multi-piece backs on guitars for many years. Unless we see more examples of this, I have to believe this is an isolated problem.

The other guitar you had issues with was an Epi, not made in the US. While this guitar had an issue, it is not even close in relationship to a US made Les Paul.

One of the forum dealers should be able to help you find a great guitar.

Good luck!

[studioguy]

Originally Posted by mr. moon

Thanks. Not much more to say at this point about it.... Kinda makes me appreciate the sweet deal I got my '92 Studio for ($350 used and some computer work for the dude selling it).

Anyone know of any *quality* Gibson dealers in the Minneapolis, MN area? I think I'll probably return to the old "play before you pay" adage rather than order another one online. If all online Gibson dealers have to send out product in the factory sealed boxes, this situation could very easily repeat itself....

-mr moon

As far as the Twin Cities goes you could try La Vonne Wagener Music in Savage, MN. I haven't been there in a long time but they used to be top notch. They're about 15 miles south of Mpls. Of course there's always GC and Best Buy

[Thunder]

If I could find a dealer who would look it over before shipping it to me, I might be willing to take the risk.

OK, I'm not Saul in disguise and I'm in no way affiliated with him other than being a happy customer twice, so...Saul will usually have a local musician in the shop who you can talk to about what you are looking for. They'll pull guitars hanging on the hooks, not sealed up in boxes (although he'll send you one of those IF you want), and check them over. I'm tellin' ya...you won't be sorry. If nothing else, give him a call.

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/sh...highlight=saul
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/sh...highlight=saul
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67

[kharrison]

I did not know Gibson USA Standards had two piece backs. When did this start? Is this new to the Traditionals? I would buy a used Historic from a Forum Bro before I bought a new guitar from MF. JMHO.

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by kharrison

I would buy a used Historic from a Forum Bro before I bought a new guitar from MF. JMHO.

I was hoping to purchase my first "new" Les Paul rather than just get another used one. Kind of a milestone thing...

-mr moon

[Kutt]

Originally Posted by JWest

See, this is what frusterates me! When I finally saved up enough money for my standard I had to drive around from shop to shop and even wait for places to get new lp's in so I could look at them and play them.
I'm sure i'm not the only one who wants to be able to see a guitar and play it in person rather than order it sight unseen and take a chance and hope the guitar I ordered has a good top and plays just as good. And now on top of all that you have qc you have to worry about as well!

My preference would of course be to buy the instrument in person, but due to an outstanding Customer Service issue between MF and myself I was able to get the guitar at a significantly lower price than what they're selling it for. No brick-and-mortar store would have matched the price. That was the mitigating factor. Otherwise, I'd have special ordered it from a store where I can see it in person when it arrived or bought one off the rack if they had the color I like. MF has always done right by me with Customer Service issues. Every. Single. Time.

At any rate, Mr. Moon, I'm sorry to hear about your pains but I too have been through the same types of issues and it's best to just be decisive and stick with your decision, whatever that may be. I'll let you know tomorrow if mine arrives with problems and we can get peeved together!

[blueskalle]

I would go for a used Historis instead. There is probarbly a lot beter QC on those and they play in an other legaue. Buying used is the way to go!
Kalle

[KTfromNJ]

I bought my current LP standard from Wildwood guitars (also listed in the forum dealers) and got some feedback on it from them before purchasing.

I think everyone has had a bad experience with MF at one time or another. I once ordered a Tech 21 Trademark 30 3 consecutive times because they shipped it in the manufacturer's box that said "not a shipping carton" on it and lo and behold, smashed amp. I would definitely get a refund and take my business to Centre City or Wildwood or another forum dealer. Best of luck

[sonar]

Originally Posted by Jeff

This is possible.

While I certainly understand your frustration, there are numerous reports of people that own or have played these (both on this forum as well as others) that have found no problems with them. Gibson has been doing multi-piece backs on guitars for many years. Unless we see more examples of this, I have to believe this is an isolated problem.

The other guitar you had issues with was an Epi, not made in the US. While this guitar had an issue, it is not even close in relationship to a US made Les Paul.

One of the forum dealers should be able to help you find a great guitar.

Good luck!

+1.

I'm sorry about your troubles mr moon.

[J.D.]

Originally Posted by mr. moon

Anyone know of any *quality* Gibson dealers in the Minneapolis, MN area? I think I'll probably return to the old "play before you pay" adage rather than order another one online. If all online Gibson dealers have to send out product in the factory sealed boxes, this situation could very easily repeat itself....

-mr moon

You might also want to give Dave Rogers (Dave's Guitar) in LaCrosse, WI a try. Not too far from MN and he is an authorized gibson dealer again.