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Old 03-17-08, 09:32 AM   #1
trendkiller
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1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Hi.

Still a great forum with cool threads and useful info!
Long time since I posted here....

Question: Are all '99 LP '59 Reissues the 40th ann models???

My own '99 LP '59 (with original PAF's) is not a Murphy, and without a COA
as well. There seems to be a bit confusion.....
As far as I know, all the '59 Reissues from 1999 are 40th ann.models.
Murphy or not.

Any comments?
Thanks!

2B
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Old 03-17-08, 09:52 AM   #2
kwoo64
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Yes, all 99 Sunburst Historics are the 40th Anniversary regardless of being a Murphy. I have one right now, has 40th Anniversary on Certificate.
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Old 03-17-08, 10:07 AM   #3
trendkiller
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Hi kwoo64.
Thanks. :-)
When I got my '99 R9 a few years back, it came without the certificate.
Long story short, a friend had stucked this guitar in the "closet" for some time after he got it from the original owner. The cert. probably has been lost somewhere on the way......

But it might be that some did not come with a cert?

2B
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Old 03-17-08, 05:28 PM   #4
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

No not all 99's were 40th ann. models. Only the ones with a cert. The general production models did not get certs. There were 40th ann. Murphy aged ones with a special Murphy signed cert. and 40th ann. with a plain cert. and then there were the general production models that were not part of the 40th ann models which did not get a cert. This was a limited model and not part of the general production run. If you didn't get a cert. then it probably isn't part of the special 40th ann. run. If the original owner lost the cert. it would be very hard to tell unless it was a Murphy. Tom kept better records than Gibson did on the 99's.

http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/press...999/mar5b.html
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Old 03-18-08, 06:52 AM   #5
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Wow, I stand corrected!
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Old 03-18-08, 08:37 AM   #6
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9 View Post
No not all 99's were 40th ann. models. Only the ones with a cert. The general production models did not get certs. ... This was a limited model and not part of the general production run. If you didn't get a cert. then it probably isn't part of the special 40th ann. run. If the original owner lost the cert. it would be very hard to tell unless it was a Murphy. Tom kept better records than Gibson did on the 99's.

http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/press...999/mar5b.html
When you say 'general production run' are you talking about R9s or generic (non-Historic) Les Paul Standards?

In other words, are there both:

- 1999 Les Paul Historic R9 40th Anniversary model (including Murphys)
and
- 1999 Les Paul Historic R9 NON-Anniversary model

...made in 1999?

Just trying to learn here.
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Old 03-18-08, 09:52 AM   #7
trendkiller
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Hi, thanks for the replies.

Yep, here is the confusion.
I can easily understand the limited run of Murphys stating a "40th ann"
model.
But why would Gibson put out a range of "std R9's", then give some a cert, and call these a 40th ann model. Then another run for exactly the same guitar without the cert. All beeing made in '99, and some R9's are still not a 40th ann model. Makes me wonder what Gibson were doing at the time....
I guess there are also some examples for byers waitning for the extra brown lifton case which never came?

Well, I have to check with the original owner of my R9 for the cert.
Hopefully it can be tracked down. Nice to know anyway.

Any more comments on this issue?
All info is appreciated, thanks.

2B.
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Old 03-18-08, 04:36 PM   #8
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by trendkiller View Post
Hi, thanks for the replies.

Yep, here is the confusion.
I can easily understand the limited run of Murphys stating a "40th ann"
model.
But why would Gibson put out a range of "std R9's", then give some a cert, and call these a 40th ann model. Then another run for exactly the same guitar without the cert. All beeing made in '99, and some R9's are still not a 40th ann model. Makes me wonder what Gibson were doing at the time....
I guess there are also some examples for byers waitning for the extra brown lifton case which never came?

Well, I have to check with the original owner of my R9 for the cert.
Hopefully it can be tracked down. Nice to know anyway.

Any more comments on this issue?
All info is appreciated, thanks.

2B.

It does seem strange but look at this year, 2008, with some 50th ann. R9's and some not. What about 2007 and the R7? Should all of them be 50th ann. R7's? (my opinion is yes, but not in Gibson's eyes)

When I said "general production" it has no reference to the Gibson USA line. It is the R9's that went to all the dealers. there was a very limited amount of R9's that were designated as 40th ann. Some were Murphy aged and some were not. The only ones that got certs. were the 40th ann. models.

From what Edwin Wilson told me, "yes there were 3 R9 models in 1999".
- 1999 Les Paul Historic R9 40th Anniversary model (including Murphys) all with certs.
and
- 1999 Les Paul Historic R9 NON-Anniversary model without certs. for the large number of dealers that just want a 59.

The aged and non-aged were to please both sides of the aged issue (aged vs, non-aged) and give them a limited edition anniversary guitar. Then there are the dealers that just want the normal R9 to save the customer a few bucks cause they want a "player" and not a collectible. It kind of makes sense from the buyers perspective.
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Old 03-18-08, 05:37 PM   #9
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Mine came with the certificate and the followed by delivery of the lifton brown case with a copy of Beauty of the Burst .
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Old 03-18-08, 06:31 PM   #10
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Bought mine 2 years ago n the bay. $1800, near mint, no Lifton, no BOTB, did have the 40th Ann Cert though si it is the 40th Ann model.
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Old 03-18-08, 10:58 PM   #11
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9 View Post
- 1999 Les Paul Historic R9 40th Anniversary model (including Murphys) all with certs.
and
- 1999 Les Paul Historic R9 NON-Anniversary model without certs. for the large number of dealers that just want a 59.
Hi Dan,
I have a '99 R9 with a matching COA but no other collateral (BOTB book or lifton case). Since it has a COA, sounds like that means it's a 40th anniversary model(?). If so, that's pretty cool - I didn't know that when I bought it.
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Old 03-19-08, 12:37 AM   #12
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

There was a run of '99 R9s that VW commissioned, Tom Murphy was involved to some degree painting or finishing. For the most part, these were nice looking and playing Historic R9s. I think to some degree these instruments shifted general opinion away from the exaggerated looking Top towards the more realistic looking ones.
Maybe someone in the know like Mark Bishop can chime in here.
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Old 03-19-08, 04:57 AM   #13
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalbergia_nigra View Post
Hi Dan,
I have a '99 R9 with a matching COA but no other collateral (BOTB book or lifton case). Since it has a COA, sounds like that means it's a 40th anniversary model(?). If so, that's pretty cool - I didn't know that when I bought it.
Howdy! I don't think all of them got the book and case, maybe just the Murphy aged ones got the book. If your cert. says 40th then it most certainly is a 40th. The general run did not have a cert. I have gotten several different answers from the guys at the Custom Shop, but all agree that only the ones with the cert are the 40th ann. models. The Murphy aged ones that went to Yamano in Japan that I have seen are outstanding.
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Old 03-19-08, 06:20 AM   #14
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

New, you got your '99 R9 with a black case. You had to send in the reg card to get the brown case and cert. All R9's got them in '99 if you sent in for it. I was there!! Ronn David had his own deal going due to his thing with Murphy and the aged guitars.
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Old 03-19-08, 07:17 AM   #15
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

ALL '99 '59's were 40th annv. guitars and came with COA's. I've never heard of or seen one that wasn't. And you could get the BOTB book, strap, COA and your brown reissue Lifton case with EVERY '59 made that year by sending in your warranty. Without sending in the warranty you'd only have the guitar, black case, hang tags and warranty. The Murphy aged '99's were the same deal except you got a hard cover BOTB book and a 2nd COA.
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Old 03-19-08, 07:25 AM   #16
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by markguitar View Post
ALL '99 '59's were 40th annv. guitars and came with COA's. I've never heard of or seen one that wasn't. And you could get the BOTB book, strap, COA and your brown reissue Lifton case with EVERY '59 made that year by sending in your warranty. Without sending in the warranty you'd only have the guitar, black case, hang tags and warranty. The Murphy aged '99's were the same deal except you got a hard cover BOTB book and a 2nd COA.

You could also do it online so you didn't need to mail in your card and you could keep it all intact.
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Old 03-19-08, 08:30 AM   #17
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

If the only difference was a certificate, "40th" would mean nothing to me. I remember Gibson was very slow getting the goodies out, and it seems like they ran out and some folks never got everything they were supposed to, but I could be wrong about that.
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Old 03-19-08, 12:11 PM   #18
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by markguitar View Post
ALL '99 '59's were 40th annv. guitars and came with COA's. I've never heard of or seen one that wasn't. And you could get the BOTB book, strap, COA and your brown reissue Lifton case with EVERY '59 made that year by sending in your warranty. Without sending in the warranty you'd only have the guitar, black case, hang tags and warranty. The Murphy aged '99's were the same deal except you got a hard cover BOTB book and a 2nd COA.
.

Hi.
Now, this make sense.
I've heard some getting the Lifton case looong time after they received the guitar and std black case. Maybe Gibson took a chance and hoped that not everyone would send back the warranty? Hehehe.
And, again as all the '99 "non Murphy" R9's were the same guitars, they all
actually would be a 40th ann. If not, what's the difference except a cert???
So, I'm still confused.

Cloud 9 has some good points which seems to be the fact as well.
I guess this matter is not that easy to have confirmed 100%.
Anyone else?
Thanks.
2B
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Old 03-19-08, 12:22 PM   #19
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by trendkiller View Post
.

Hi.
Now, this make sense.
I've heard some getting the Lifton case looong time after they received the guitar and std black case. Maybe Gibson took a chance and hoped that not everyone would send back the warranty? Hehehe.
And, again as all the '99 "non Murphy" R9's were the same guitars, they all
actually would be a 40th ann. If not, what's the difference except a cert???
So, I'm still confused.

Cloud 9 has some good points which seems to be the fact as well.
I guess this matter is not that easy to have confirmed 100%.
Anyone else?
Thanks.
2B
The Lifton cases were more or less ordered in lots as needed.
So yes there was times when they ran out and had to wait for more to be made and shipped to them.
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Old 03-19-08, 02:21 PM   #20
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Here is a pic of my '99 R9....#9913XX. The original owner is a member here and bought the guitar back East in exactly the same condition in which I received it in a trade with a dealer in Hollywood, who got the guitar from the original owner...no paperwork, brown case only.



So, this guitar could have come without the COA, right? IT was sold new without the black case. ????

goldtone, if you bought a guitar that is anything close to this one, you made a great deal at $1800. Theft by agreement! (:^)

The finish on this one suits my taste. who is the fellow that was spraying these at Gibson in '99. I keep forgetting his name....Mark???
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Old 03-19-08, 07:11 PM   #21
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by markguitar View Post
ALL '99 '59's were 40th annv. guitars and came with COA's. I've never heard of or seen one that wasn't. And you could get the BOTB book, strap, COA and your brown reissue Lifton case with EVERY '59 made that year by sending in your warranty. Without sending in the warranty you'd only have the guitar, black case, hang tags and warranty. The Murphy aged '99's were the same deal except you got a hard cover BOTB book and a 2nd COA.
So what you are telling me is that when Edwin Wilson, the guy in charge of the Historic program at the Custom Shop, told me that there were 2 40th ann. models and a general production model, he was mistaken? Maybe too many years of sniffing lacquer....
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Old 03-19-08, 07:27 PM   #22
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
goldtone, if you bought a guitar that is anything close to this one, you made a great deal at $1800. Theft by agreement! (:^)
Mine was one of the VERY few eastern maple plaintops. Really nice vintage looking plaintop with lots of figure and mineral streaks, darkburst. Plain top made it less expensive but the rarity is cool. Even with that $1800 was CHEAP!! I've seen them for usually for at least twice that and up to $4000.

GT


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Old 03-19-08, 07:45 PM   #23
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9 View Post
So what you are telling me is that when Edwin Wilson, the guy in charge of the Historic program at the Custom Shop, told me that there were 2 40th ann. models and a general production model, he was mistaken? Maybe too many years of sniffing lacquer....
Either he misunderstood the question or you misunderstood the answer because what you posted isn't correct.
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Old 03-19-08, 09:15 PM   #24
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9 View Post
So what you are telling me is that when Edwin Wilson, the guy in charge of the Historic program at the Custom Shop, told me that there were 2 40th ann. models and a general production model, he was mistaken? Maybe too many years of sniffing lacquer....
Well, to me that means 2 -40th models: Tom Murphy aged and non-aged = 2. "General production" meaning std. production non- Historic, non- 40th annv. Les Paul Standard.

Plain and simple, if the 1999 '59 reissue R9's were made in the year of the 40th anniversary of the original, how could they not be 40th anniversary guitars?? They all got the same appointments, same COA's, same hang tags, same reissue paperwork in the little wax paper envelope, same dealer cost and on and on and on...........
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Old 03-19-08, 10:44 PM   #25
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Mark is as right as rain. I bought mine new in Nov. '99
from Gruhn Guitars. It came with all of the goodies he
described. I also have the Gibson brochure that came
stapled in an issue of Vintage Guitar magazine. From
that brochure:

"When you purchase this fine instrument, you will
also receive a deluxe Gibson Custom Shop case
AND a 1959 Reissue case just like the one issued
with the original guitar. You'll also receive a genu-
ine leather 1959 Reissue Guitar Strap, a copy of
Beauty of the Burst by Yasuhiko Iwanade, and a
signed Certificate of Authenticity."
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Old 03-19-08, 11:59 PM   #26
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

OK fella's this is the way I remember how it was back in 99. There were many variations of the 59 40th anniversarry guitar offered. But before I tell you about them let me say that there were also non 40th anniversarry 59 LP's that were offered in 1999 that did come with a cert but it did not say 40th anniversarry on it. We have seen many examples of this guitar and the cert and the only thing it had in common to the 40th anniv. of the 59 Les Paul was that it was that it was built in the 40th anniversarry year but not an official 40th annv. guitar. Think of it like back in 2002 when Fender USA did the 40th annv. model of the 62 Strat and that was the official 40th annv. model but they still made the regular 62 reissue Strat that was not. OK back to the 40th annv. Lesters. There was the plain top, AAA flame Maple top, and the AAAAA killer top 40th annv. guitars all available in 99. All were eligible to receive the strap, BOTB book, and extra case. Then Vintage World commisioned Murphy to do run of aged 59 annv. guitars belived to be about 100 pieces but some memebers here report seeing serial numbers as high as 150. There was also two different runs made for Yamano the Japanese importer being a 59 40th annv. model with a flame Maple and the Killer top 59 40th annv. guitars that were aged by Tom Murphy and they had a R9K designation in the control cavity and some of these are verified by Gibson as Brazilian Rosewood finger board guitars. Now I know you dont agree with me Mark on the R9K guitars that went to Japan and thats ok but this is the way I remember the 40th annv year back in 99 which was all verified to me by Tom Murphy and Edwin Wilson. Here is link that will help. Remember guys by putting our heads together and having discussions like this will keep our hobby alive and healthy.
Regards,
C5

http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/press...999/mar5b.html
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Old 03-20-08, 02:54 AM   #27
trendkiller
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Hi.
Mine '99 R9 has the "R9 designation in the control cavity ".
This makes me wonder even more why this would not be a 40th ann guitar.
I guess I have to try to track down the cert (if it ever came with the guitar).

I understand the example with the '62 Fender ann guitars.
No "dissing" of Fenders (I love my old strats), but I guess a mass produced
strat would be easier to split in two version vs a '99 RI LP with all the works involved with the historics.

Still, I'm not 100% convinced if there are a std production 1999 59RI's AND a
40th anniversay model, both beeing the exact same guitar.
What would Gibson gain with this?
As far as I can see, "if" there were 2 runs....why would a customer buy the
"non-ann" model for approx the same price?
It's some $$$$ for a Historic, and we all knew about the 1999 model beeing the 40th ann year for the 1959.
I would think that Gibson would try to sell every single LP that year as a
40th ann LP, yep to have a good sales year for the 59RI.
After all, it really means something for the most of us. I guess....

Any more comments?
Thanks.
2B
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Old 03-20-08, 05:37 AM   #28
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

This is a really interesting thread. I wasn't into Historics in 99 and i'm learning alot. I'd love to see an R9K - does anyone know of any pictures?

My 40th Anni is a bit of an anomoly. Its a Murphy, with a factory Bigs AND stud holes, and was made in 2000 (and came with the 40 Anni cert). Seriously!
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Old 03-20-08, 09:44 AM   #29
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold Tone View Post
Mine was one of the VERY few eastern maple plaintops. Really nice vintage looking plaintop with lots of figure and mineral streaks, darkburst. Plain top made it less expensive but the rarity is cool. Even with that $1800 was CHEAP!! I've seen them for usually for at least twice that and up to $4000.

GT
Lovely guitar GT.

Out of interest, how would I know if a plaintop was "Eastern" maple?
Does the existence of them mean that there is a more common "Western" maple version?

I understood that my 99 plaintop (came with cert, BOTB book, strap etc) was pretty common as it's really just an R8 that got the upgraded name for 1999.

Still, it's a very nice guitar and I love it:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1141/...4de0468c_b.jpg
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Old 03-20-08, 10:00 AM   #30
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Torbjørn...
Allle R9s fra 1999 er 40th Anniversarys. Værre er det ikke.
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Old 03-20-08, 10:12 AM   #31
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold Tone View Post
Mine was one of the VERY few eastern maple plaintops. Really nice vintage looking plaintop with lots of figure and mineral streaks, darkburst. Plain top made it less expensive but the rarity is cool. Even with that $1800 was CHEAP!! I've seen them for usually for at least twice that and up to $4000.

GT


GT, I would have to call that one TWister due to the figure on the bass side. Definite vortex.

Interesting thread. The stamp in my control cavity reads 'R9'.....no 'K'.
I guess I got one of the ugly stepsisters.
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Old 03-20-08, 10:45 AM   #32
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

IMO this thread is need of additional pics...one of each color. Meet the 40th anniv. sisters


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Old 03-20-08, 11:00 AM   #33
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by swervin55 View Post
IMO this thread is need of additional pics...one of each color. Meet the 40th anniv. sisters

That is just stunning
The colour of these 99's is just fantastic, and yours is a beauty
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Old 03-20-08, 12:07 PM   #34
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven View Post
Torbjørn...
Allle R9s fra 1999 er 40th Anniversarys. Værre er det ikke.
.

Hi Steven.
Thanks. But, any "proof"?
Kult med en mann til fra "Land of the Vikings". Lenge siden jeg postet her..
T.
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Old 03-20-08, 12:31 PM   #35
Gold Tone
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

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Lovely guitar GT.

Out of interest, how would I know if a plaintop was "Eastern" maple?
Does the existence of them mean that there is a more common "Western" maple version?

I understood that my 99 plaintop (came with cert, BOTB book, strap etc) was pretty common as it's really just an R8 that got the upgraded name for 1999.

Still, it's a very nice guitar and I love it:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1141/...4de0468c_b.jpg
Thanks! I was looking for a really great sounding and playing guitar on e-bay a few years ago. I needed something to gig with without taking out my more valuable guitars (because as any steady giggers know....shit ALWAYS happens!). I was looking for a beat up Historic but came across this one in my search and hit "Buy it Now" for $1800. It wasn't beat up but was cheap. I stuck SD Anniversary PAF's in it and vintage early 70's Grovers. Refret with a little bigger wire and an RS 4/6 nylon nut. It now has Vintage Clone plastic, Pigtail hardware, CTS pots, Luxe Bees. Love this guitar. If you are ever unfortunate enough to see me play live I'll be playing this guitar.

I was told that there were only something like 40 R9 Plaintops in 1999......surely only a few Darkburst.

I am confident it is eastern maple due to the tight grain and the dead give away mineral streaks.

Nice axe in your link! I love a plaintop with interesting grain.
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Old 03-20-08, 12:44 PM   #36
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

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ALL '99 '59's were 40th annv. guitars and came with COA's. I've never heard of or seen one that wasn't. And you could get the BOTB book, strap, COA and your brown reissue Lifton case with EVERY '59 made that year by sending in your warranty. Without sending in the warranty you'd only have the guitar, black case, hang tags and warranty. The Murphy aged '99's were the same deal except you got a hard cover BOTB book and a 2nd COA.
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Old 03-20-08, 12:51 PM   #37
kink56
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Of course, as usual there WERE Yamano versions that differed from the ones for the US market, but the 4 models (outside special orders or special runs for YAMANO etc) were the Murphy, the Killertop version R9K, the normal 40th version and the Plaintop. As far as I know they were ALL 40ths (unlike this year's 50th for the R8) It IS possible that some got ordinary COAs...but I have ALSO seen Y2K R9s with a 40th anniversary COA!! SN 9 0xxx. Gibson is not consistant, we all know this.
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Old 03-20-08, 01:45 PM   #38
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

Kink56 wrote: "Gibson is not consistant, we all know this."
So it seems. As I noted in my post above, my guitar was sold in the brown case only with tags and small paperwork. The black case and the COA were not there. My brown case instead of the black is an inconsistency according to what's been written here.
Just think.... this debate about this situation is occurring only 8-9 years down the line from 1999. Wait until some years ahve gone by. They really will have somethings to debate then, eh?
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Old 03-20-08, 02:18 PM   #39
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

You had to send in the warranty card to get the BOTB and extra case. I think my cert came at that time as well. I mailed my card in 2003 and still got all the stuff!
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Old 03-20-08, 04:00 PM   #40
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Re: 1999 R9 40TH ann.....

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Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Kink56 wrote: "Gibson is not consistant, we all know this."
So it seems. As I noted in my post above, my guitar was sold in the brown case only with tags and small paperwork. The black case and the COA were not there. My brown case instead of the black is an inconsistency according to what's been written here.
Just think.... this debate about this situation is occurring only 8-9 years down the line from 1999. Wait until some years ahve gone by. They really will have somethings to debate then, eh?
Wally, Since you didn't get your guitar new from the original dealer it shipped to from Gibson, it's hard to say for sure what case it came with. At that time, the only way you could get the brown case was to send in your warranty as stated before. The guitars were shipped to the dealers in the black Historic cases only. For most of the first year of the brown cases you couldn't even order or buy one separately because Gibson was so far behind in getting them out to customers that had already bought guitars! Lots of people waited a long time for them. The original owner probably kept the black case. Many people like the black case better because it's safer. I've bought and received in trade many '99's in the brown case and was told up front by the original owners that they were keeping the black case for another guitar.
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