Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

[les strat]

Originally Posted by MikeSlub

But does anyone remember the year they added 'mojo' to the list of features?

I believe that is only available as aftermarket.

[Todd Louis]

Originally Posted by DANELECTRO

Les Paul Historic Collection Chronical

1993
* Historic Collection introduced. Models include; '54 Black Beauty, '56 Goldtop, '57 Custom Black Beauty/3 Pickup, '57 Goldtop, '57 Custom Black Beauty/2 Pickup, '57 Custom Black Beauty with optional Bigsby Tailpiece, '59 Flametop, '60 Flametop
* First 25 Sunburst and first 15 Goldtops were painted by Tom Murphy.
* Deep neck joint.
* Holly wood head veneer.
* Silk screened les paul logo.
* Correct pickup routing.
* Les Paul classic aged inlay.
* 57 Classic pickups.
* Kluson replica tuners.
* Vintage letter styled serial#.
*"Historic collection" decal on the headstock.
* Indian rosewood fingerboard.
*"AAAA" grade soft maple top.
* Regular gibson usa brown case.
* Regular early 90s style cherry sunburst.
* Cherry sunburst and heritage darkburst"


1994
* Historic parts; only pickguard, pickup rings, trussrod cover.
* Regular gibson usa white pearloid inlay.
* "AAAA" grade soft maple top.
* Darker transparent orangy cherry sunburst. (1994-1996)
* First year for the R8



1995

1996
* "Flametop" R8 introduced in Buttersctch and Vintage Red finishes

1997
* ID micro chip in the neck joint.
* Brass bridge saddles instead of steel bridge saddles.
* "AAAAA" grade soft maple top.
* Brighter transparent orangy cherry sunburst. (1997-199
* Pickguard blueprinted and caused a gap, revealing improper placement of the bridge pickup
* Brighter back cherry color.
* R4 1997 up
* Junior 57 1997 up
* Junior 58 1997 up
* Special 58 1997-2000?
* Special 60 1997-up (when they discontinued the Special 58, they incoporated the SC into the Special 60)

1998
* R2 1998-2003

1999
* 40th Anniversary '59 RI - Painted and aged by Murphy (100 made?)
* No R8 this year
* COA began.
* Thin body binding.
* Thin lacquer finish.
* "AAA" hard maple top.
* new vintage taste cherry and darkburst.
* Vintage style back red filler color.
* Refined parts positions and neck shape.
* Bridge pickup moved to its proper place
* Tortoise side markers
* R9 Plaintop 1999-2000



2000
* No R8 this year
* Vintage lifton style brown case for R9/R0. (made in Guatemara)
* Lemon Burst, Tri Burst.

2001
* R9 production limited to 500 units US, 1000 worldwide due to "parts constraints"
* Custom Authentic models introduced (broken-in finish, aged hardware, Grovers)
* Dickie Betts '57 Goldtop introduced (limited edition of 114)
* R8 returns with a flametop
* Thin neck binding.
* New round edged pearloid inlay. (2001-2002 only)
* Vintage style mid jumbo size frets.
* New thick jack plate. (2001-2002 only)
* Aluminum tailpiece.
* Very bright red sunburst.
* Faded Tabacco, Iced Tea, Washed Cherry.
* Lifton case is standard for R9/R0

2002
* Genuine Kluson tuners for the early units.
* Improved tuner bushings
* More accurately shaped fingerboard inlays
* Non-wire ABR-1 bridge for the early units.
* Amber tophat knobs
* CTS pots
* Owners Card (listing name, serial number and the dealership), Certificate of Authenticity, Reissue Strap, an Embroidered Les Paul Swatch and a Custom Care Kit.
* Burstbucker type 2 & 3.
* Inlay material changed to swirly plastic, corners sharpened. (only R9/R0, later for all models)
* Vintage style thin jack plate. (only R9/0, later for all models)
* Vintage style thin toggle switch washer. (only R9/0, later for all models)
* Vintage color toggle switch knob. (only R9/0, later for all models)
* Vintage style CTS pots and oil caps. not bumblebee. (only R9/0, later all models)
* Dark deep cherry sunburst.
* R7 gets Bursrtbuckers
* Left handed Historics get side dots added to the underside of the neck.

2003
* Brazilian boards installed from January through May
* Price drop on R8s and R9s
* Truss rod cover moved away from nut
* Headstock shape changed
* Tuners arranged to be inline
* Vintage style CTS pots
* Bumblebee Caps
* Return to wired ABR
* Madagascar rosewood fingerboard.
* Eastern hard maple.
* "AA" grade eastern hard maple top.
* R9 flametop becomes less flashy due to increased use of Eastern Maple
* R8 returns with a plain top
* Burstbucker type 1 & 2.
* Gold knobs instead of previous vintage amber knobs.
* Corrected tuner positions. "V" intead of "l l" way.
* Transparent orange to regular red cherry sunburst.
* " i "dot on gibson logo moved to the correct position.
* Refined parts positions and neck shape.
* Inlays changed to swirly plastic, sharp corners on remaining models


2004
* Cloud 9 chambered models introduced in limited quantities
* Jimmy Page signature model introduced; 25 Murphy aged guitars signed by JP, 150 Murphy aged unsigned models, Custom Authentic non-Murphy aged production begins
* New custom shop black case.
* "AAA" eastern hard maple top.
* Silk screened logo moved to the correct location.
* Short Truss Rod Screws the right size


2005
* TR screws return to the wrong size

2006
* VOS finish with aged hardware introduced
* CS begins using Plek machine used for dressing frets and cutting nut slots
* Real vintage looking maple top grains/figures.

2007
* Brighter back red filler color.
* Real honduran mahogany.............
* 50th Anniversary Goldtop (Ewwww) 157 to be built

2008

2001
59's where not limited ( But they where suppose be )
The new Jack plate became standard
COA's Standard

2002
59's where limited
Murphy's EXTREAMLY LIMITED!!!
Same Tuners as before but better Bushings
No BB's yet in 59's
No Oil Caps!! there the BB caps without the BB casing on them ..

2003
Tuners are put in the right spot
Head Stock Shape fixed

[kink56]

Todd the 2002 R9 you used to own (I have now) HAS Burstbuckers! I took off the covers and seen for myself. As I say, just because the "wound by" sticker is not there, does not mean they are 57 Classics. One clue is rough magnets (although the earlies BBs had smooth magnets) Japan first got Burstbuckers in there Historics in 1996!!!!!!

[Todd Louis]

Originally Posted by kink56

Todd the 2002 R9 you used to own (I have now) HAS Burstbuckers! I took off the covers and seen for myself. As I say, just because the "wound by" sticker is not there, does not mean they are 57 Classics. One clue is rough magnets (although the earlies BBs had smooth magnets) Japan first got Burstbuckers in there Historics in 1996!!!!!!

I neva go by the wound by stiker


There not BB man ...

And there not 57's

They where the inbeetween No bukers ...

[Todd Louis]

After I got tos guitar I was asked how I liked the PU's because they where a test for 03' same thing with the Pots and Caps that year

[Stevedenver]

in 2002 the R8 CA's no longer had Grovers

[axeman565758]

Originally Posted by MikeSlub

You mentioned the flametop R8s in 1998. If memory serves, there were no R8s in 1999 and maybe also in 2000. In 2001 they reintroduced flametop R8s (sold a ton of them that year). I can't remember when they became plaintops after that.

58 Figuretops through 2002......I have seen some late ( 6 digit serial # R8's) with '02 serial numbers as plaintops. My guess is that production on plaintops started sometime around November '02

[sunburst_59]

Originally Posted by DANELECTRO

A forum member had asked in another thread if there was a definitive list of the year-to-year changes to the Historic line. I'm sure the information is scattered about amongst numerous threads here on the forum, but finding it can be a chore. I thought it would be a good idea to try to collect the history of all changes into one thread. Once the list is complete, it can be organized into a single chart and posted on the web or possibly posted as a sticky in the Historic District.

I am going to maintain a chronological history in post #2 of this thread with milestones for each year. To contribute, just reply to the thread with whatever information you have and I will paste that data into post #2. Sometimes it may be a day or so before I get around to updating the chart with the latest posts, but I'll try to keep up on it. This chronical will only be as good as the information submitted, so try to be accurate with your information. Bear in mind that often times the changes occur mid-year, so there may be some overlap. Corrections are welcome.

I'll get things started with a few pieces of information that I know and then I'll rely on the group to help fill in the blanks.

Hi Danelectro, I've been hoping someone would attempt this for a while, I actually have 5 historic reissue R9 1959 LP's, a 93, 94, 95, 96 and a 97, so if you want any direct comparisons I would be happy to help. As you rightly state the 93 has the Historic decal on the back, R9 brand in the control cavity, fat 59 neck, long tenon, but the Holly head veneer is thinner than the later models, the neck angle is a little less acute, the colour is more of a light sunburst and the guitar never came with a scratchplate. Incidentally mine is # 9 3100 and is an early November 1993 guitar.

The 94 and 95 both have a thicker holly veneer and have a darker, richer colour, also they both have a more yellowed or aged apperarance to the binding.

The 96 is even darker and heavier but then again I have had a light 96 as well, generally though the 96's I have seen tend to have more PRS type very uniform and well bookmatched tops, the 94's and 95's tend to be a bit wilder and probably have a more authentic, less contrived look.

The 97 is the best of the lot flame wise, very broad big leaf maple. I have had a couple of 98's and they tended to have very impressive big leaf tops as well but had the neck pickup route cut a few milimetres lower down the body, hence the gap at the bottom of the pickguard. Also all the 98's I have seen did not have dial pointers on the volume and tone controls. I never liked the the sound of either of the 98's I had, always thought they were a bit thinner sounding on the treble pickup, is that due to the pickup being that little bit further away?

From 99 onwards I lost interest, Gibson started making them in huge numbers and they lost their rarity value for me after that.

For my opinion, (for what it's worth!!) the best years of the historics are 93-97 with 97 having the best tops, but I like the colour of the 94/95's and the 93's are the rarest.

Keep up the good work!!

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by the399

This is a great thread!! when everything gets sorted this should become a sticky IMO.

Yes, a sticky would be great, but I'm thinking this would make an even better book! And just in time for the '59's 50th anniversary! I can picture it now...lots of photos of guitars from each year with closeups of some of the new/changed features for each year.

[wavygravy]

Originally Posted by sunburst_59

Hi Danelectro, I've been hoping someone would attempt this for a while, I actually have 5 historic reissue R9 1959 LP's, a 93, 94, 95, 96 and a 97, so if you want any direct comparisons I would be happy to help. As you rightly state the 93 has the Historic decal on the back, R9 brand in the control cavity, fat 59 neck, long tenon, but the Holly head veneer is thinner than the later models, the neck angle is a little less acute, the colour is more of a light sunburst and the guitar never came with a scratchplate. Incidentally mine is # 9 3100 and is an early November 1993 guitar.

The 94 and 95 both have a thicker holly veneer and have a darker, richer colour, also they both have a more yellowed or aged apperarance to the binding.

The 96 is even darker and heavier but then again I have had a light 96 as well, generally though the 96's I have seen tend to have more PRS type very uniform and well bookmatched tops, the 94's and 95's tend to be a bit wilder and probably have a more authentic, less contrived look.

The 97 is the best of the lot flame wise, very broad big leaf maple. I have had a couple of 98's and they tended to have very impressive big leaf tops as well but had the neck pickup route cut a few milimetres lower down the body, hence the gap at the bottom of the pickguard. Also all the 98's I have seen did not have dial pointers on the volume and tone controls. I never liked the the sound of either of the 98's I had, always thought they were a bit thinner sounding on the treble pickup, is that due to the pickup being that little bit further away?

From 99 onwards I lost interest, Gibson started making them in huge numbers and they lost their rarity value for me after that.

For my opinion, (for what it's worth!!) the best years of the historics are 93-97 with 97 having the best tops, but I like the colour of the 94/95's and the 93's are the rarest.

Keep up the good work!!

[LesterP]

Few things I can add:

2001 Custom Authentics were only 3 models. R7 Goldtop, R8 Standard, and the Black Beauty Custom (not sure of the year replicated).

Also, BurstBucker #2 and #3 were standard on these 2001 Authentics. (2002 was not the first year for these pickups).

[kink56]

Originally Posted by LesterP

Few things I can add:

2001 Custom Authentics were only 3 models. R7 Goldtop, R8 Standard, and the Black Beauty Custom (not sure of the year replicated).

Also, BurstBucker #2 and #3 were standard on these 2001 Authentics. (2002 was not the first year for these pickups).

Thank you!!

[fjminor]

Originally Posted by MikeSlub

Yessir! You're right! Thanks for reminding me! Here is my "Historic Collection" certificate for my early '93 Les Paul Reissue (pre-Historic):

Shouldn't that be your "Hysteric Collection" certificate Mike.....

[delawaregold]

Originally Posted by sunburst_59

As you rightly state the 93 has the Historic decal on the back, R9 brand in the control cavity, fat 59 neck, long tenon, but the Holly head veneer is thinner than the later models, the neck angle is a little less acute, the colour is more of a light sunburst and the guitar never came with a scratchplate. Incidentally mine is # 9 3100 and is an early November 1993 guitar.

Sunburst_59.

I would love to see some photo’s of your guitars, especially that ‘93.

[DucRyder]

Originally Posted by DANELECTRO

I'm just compiling information that has either been posted by forum members or found within articles on the Gibson website. You''ll have to be more specific about any errors and provide corrections.

What did you mean by "soft maple top" for the 1993 and 1994?

[DucRyder]

Originally Posted by sunburst_59

. As you rightly state the 93 has the Historic decal on the back,

My 1994 has the Historic decal of the neck/headstock area as well

[DucRyder]

First 200 of 1994 painted By Tom Murphy as well...

[MikeSlub]

Just remembered - in 1999 they also made a small number of R9s with "Killertop" designation - highly figured (many were quilted); they called them "AAAAA" tops. And they had an "R9K" designation in the control cavity.

[kink56]

Murphy on the first 15 93 R7 and the first 25 93 R9s. ALL 50 (or so) 94 R8s.

[kink56]

Soft Maple=Western big leaf. I am not so sure, I think they started using that in mid 94 or so. Except for the quilts all along.

[superlead73]

What about the "Stinger" run which was when? '03? Did these have BR board?

[delawaregold]

Originally Posted by kink56

Soft Maple=Western big leaf. I am not so sure, I think they started using that in mid 94 or so. Except for the quilts all along.

That is correct, as per Walt Carter.

[delawaregold]

Originally Posted by superlead73

What about the "Stinger" run which was when? '03? Did these have BR board?

Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls all have Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards
[EDIT] This refers to the Music Machine Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls.
******* not all Les Pauls with stingers made in 2003 were part of this series.
LINK:

http://www.stingerguitars.com/

[DANELECTRO]

I added a "Links" section to post #2. To kick things off I scanned a copy of my 1993 Historic catalog into JPG format and uploaded the files to Photobucket. If you have additional links with pertinate Historic spec information, reply to the thread and I'll add them to the list in post #2

1993 Historic Collection Catalog

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by delawaregold

Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls all have Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards
LINK:

http://www.stingerguitars.com/

Here's an exception...a late '03, Murphy aged, and without a BRW fingerboard: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=015

[Rumbling_Groover]

Originally Posted by kink56

Many things became "official" during a certain year, actually had their beginings in the previous year.

Hence my '97 R0 with no pick guard gap.

[Rumbling_Groover]

Originally Posted by sunburst_59

Hi Danelectro, I've been hoping someone would attempt this for a while, I actually have 5 historic reissue R9 1959 LP's, a 93, 94, 95, 96 and a 97, so if you want any direct comparisons I would be happy to help. As you rightly state the 93 has the Historic decal on the back, R9 brand in the control cavity, fat 59 neck, long tenon, but the Holly head veneer is thinner than the later models, the neck angle is a little less acute, the colour is more of a light sunburst and the guitar never came with a scratchplate. Incidentally mine is # 9 3100 and is an early November 1993 guitar.

The 94 and 95 both have a thicker holly veneer and have a darker, richer colour, also they both have a more yellowed or aged apperarance to the binding.

The 96 is even darker and heavier but then again I have had a light 96 as well, generally though the 96's I have seen tend to have more PRS type very uniform and well bookmatched tops, the 94's and 95's tend to be a bit wilder and probably have a more authentic, less contrived look.

The 97 is the best of the lot flame wise, very broad big leaf maple. I have had a couple of 98's and they tended to have very impressive big leaf tops as well but had the neck pickup route cut a few milimetres lower down the body, hence the gap at the bottom of the pickguard. Also all the 98's I have seen did not have dial pointers on the volume and tone controls. I never liked the the sound of either of the 98's I had, always thought they were a bit thinner sounding on the treble pickup, is that due to the pickup being that little bit further away?

From 99 onwards I lost interest, Gibson started making them in huge numbers and they lost their rarity value for me after that.

For my opinion, (for what it's worth!!) the best years of the historics are 93-97 with 97 having the best tops, but I like the colour of the 94/95's and the 93's are the rarest.

Keep up the good work!!

Great post, and good comparison. Not all the '90s uber tops are big leaf soft maple. I know I have seen a couple of HRMs over time. My '97 R0 has many mineral flecks hidden amongst the wildest of tops. The top wood spec varies on the '90s guitars so it could be big leaf or hard rock.

I agree I lost interest in them when they started making thousands.

[delawaregold]

Originally Posted by pinefd

Here's an exception...a late '03, Murphy aged, and without a BRW fingerboard

Yes, I am afraid I wasn’t clear. The reference to Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls,
and the link I provided was directed at;
The Music Machine Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls.
They had both a Gibson Serial Number and a Music Machine Serial number, and production
was stopped when Gibson would no longer build them to the Music Machine specifications.
Gibson did continue to put stingers on some of their guitars after the Brazilian run had ended,
but these were not part of the MM Stinger Series. Sorry for the confusion. The link would have
clarified the situation, but not everyone clicks on the link.
Your guitars ROCK, by the way!

[MikeSlub]

Originally Posted by DANELECTRO

I added a "Links" section to post #2. To kick things off I scanned a copy of my 1993 Historic catalog into JPG format and uploaded the files to Photobucket. If you have additional links with pertinate Historic spec information, reply to the thread and I'll add them to the list in post #2

1993 Historic Collection Catalog

Danelectro, you've done a GREAT job on this project, which is of great service to LPF members. We should contact Lily and have her move this to the Home Page with the other reference materials, so that it will be available to members all the time as a great reference tool. Again, many thanks for initiating this! You rock!

[Mikester]

Originally Posted by 6L6

2001 R9's were the first to have the lightweight aluminum tailpiece and tortoise side dot markers among other changes that year.

Originally Posted by kink56

tortoise came in 1999.

"My Y2K R9 does NOT have tortoise fretboard side dot markers."

Originally Posted by kink56

Are you SURE your Y2K does NOT have tortoise? Both my 99s did! Sometimes you have to shine a VERY bright light to see any red or brown!! Many LOOK black with normal light!

Verified with magnification and VERY bright light - My 2000 R9 does NOT have tortoise fretboard side dot markers. My '67 SG DOES have tortoise, which is visible to the naked eye in bad lighting.

[kink56]

Okay then! Just wanted to make sure, because I have had them that could only be seen in direct bright light before.....some are very obvious, it depends on what part of the sheet is punched and use on a particular guitar. Parts of tortiose material is almost black.

[moonpie]

I must hereby embark on a mission to have the 91 & 92 Reissues included in the Historic District of the LPF. I was looking through some old material trying to verify when the Flametop Reissue was added to the Historic Collection. I thought was 92, but I came across the Walter Carter "Keeping the Flame Alive" article which says the Reissue was added to the Historic Collection in 91.

I wouldn't have a problem if we use the long neck tenon to denote the difference in the R series reissues and the Prehistorics, but that would discount a whole bunch of 93 Reissues as well as the 91 and 92 Reissues.

[kink56]

In reference to the R4, R7, R8 and R0 2003 BRW LPs. In those serial number ranges for BRW some are NOT BRW. R4s include Customs, R7s include Juniors AND Customs, R8s include Juniors and R0s include G0s and Specials. Here is an example of that from a Q&A on the Gibson Forum:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are any of the serial numbers between 8 3001 and 8 3256 Historic Juniors? Do you have any idea how many?
The same question for R7s between 7 3001 and 7 3707, many Juniors?


Re: R8 BRW (admin)
Posted: 2:13:00 on 12 12 2007 Modified: Never

looks like 31 "8"s and 28 "7"s are Juniors in those ranges.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[kink56]

Another Q&A regarding early 2003 R7s:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have heard Gibson admits that 7 3001-7 3010 are NOT Brazilian, even though the site verifies them to be. They are left over 02s. Is this true?


Re: earliest 03 R7s (admin)
Posted: 8:51:06 on 7 9 2007 Modified: 9:38:55 on 7 9 2007

the info i have indicates the following with regards to BR on 2003 R7s:

1, 5, 6, and 7 have 2002 specs
2 and 3 are LP Juniors
4 is an '03 prototype, so should have brazilian
8, 9 and 10 i don't have any info on these...i don't believe they ever left the building

[Plankspanker]

Great job on this Dano, once it's finished it should be required reading for forum membership, that along with an article on Topwrapping and aging hardware.

Think the Brown Lifton cases were made in Costa Rica not Guatemala.

[kink56]

Comments on the R0 BRW of 2003:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that 50 of the R0s from 0 3001 to 0 3163 are G0s and NOT BRW according to the Brazilian check site http://www.guitarpool.com/cgi-bin/brcheck.pl Can you tell me how many are R0 Specials? The site only mentions that if you have a R7 R8 or R0 Junior or Special, then you do NOT have BRW. Just how many R0 BRWs are there?


Re: R0 BRW (admin)
Posted: 8:03:29 on 7 24 2007 Modified: Never

some of the spreadsheet info i have on the 2003 '60s is a bit ambiguous...to be certain, i'd have to run all 163 numbers through our database, which i just don't have time to do. Based on the spreadsheet info though, i would say it's in the neighborhood of 80 of them that have BR. if there's a specific number in question, feel free to post.

[kink56]

Even though the R2 was offered with BRW, no one bought any R2 before May, so none were actually produced.

[DucRyder]

Originally Posted by delawaregold

That is correct, as per Walt Carter.

So in other words you could have a soft maple top or a hard maple top depending on the supplier of wood!

[tooold]

Originally Posted by DANELECTRO

Les Paul Historic Collection Chronicle


1997
* R4 1997 up

This is a great idea, many thanks for all the work. I have a 1995 R4 (4 5784), not sure when they started.

[kink56]

That is right, between mid 94 and 2002 you could have either Eastern or Western Maple on your Flametop/figured top LP. (Quilt is always Western, Birdseye is always Eastern....and flecking is indicative of Eastern, but just because is does not have flecking does not mean it is not Eastern) Also HRM is a particular type of Eastern, not all Eastern is HRM, but all HRM is Eastern.

I am sure the maple wood expert here (forgot who) will chime in on this, with genus-species explanations.