Preventing the infamous headstock break

Wire and wood · 12-24-05, 10:23 PM

I've seen and heard of so many Les Pauls with cracked or broken headstocks that I was wondering just how delicate they really are? What I mean is, does this damage occur from just regular hanging on wall peg or are these guitars which are getting abused?
Maybe a stupid question but I still wonder about it so if anyone would care to indulge me.

jrgtr42 · 12-24-05, 10:52 PM

Howdy....not a stupid question by any means...the only stupid ones are the questions not asked.
Headstocks on Gibsons are more delicate than on, say a Fender, but it;s not going to break under normal use and storage. It'll take a pretty good shot in just the right place toi crack it, even if there's no volute (triangular chunk of wood left at the neck/headstock junction) What would do it is, for instance, falling off a stand, and hitting the ground nut first. That amount of force concentrated on such a small area would rack it pretty well. Just normal usage and storage won't break it.

MrMike · 12-24-05, 11:22 PM

It's been said by several repairmen here that guitar stands are most often the culprit for headstock breaks. The consensus seems to be that even the best stands are a poor substitute for keeping the guitar in the case when you're not playing it.

jrfisher · 12-25-05, 02:33 AM

Always unplug the guitar before setting it down. I've heard lots of stories about guitars being knocked off stands because someone tripped over the cord.

bluesjuke · 12-25-05, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrfisher

Always unplug the guitar before setting it down. I've heard lots of stories about guitars being knocked off stands because someone tripped over the cord.

Be especially aware of this when non-musicians are around your equipment!
They are not used to automatically avoiding cords.

Also watch out for less experienced guitarists not used to handing that particular model of guitar.
When we become more used to handling different guitars we become accustomed to avoiding surrounding guitars, chairs, etc. in a second nature sort of way.
For example I gave my newer to guitar brother warnings when he was trying out my new Strat years ago. He bitched, "I'm being careful!" to which I replied, " Just want you to be aware of your surroundings in view of the fact you are sitting close to the table". I wasn't being picky just wanted to alert him to something he may not realize with his limited experience.
Ten seconds later Wham!!! into the table to which I said, "That's why I said something". Thank God it was a Strat.

77CUSTOM · 12-25-05, 05:04 AM

One time my band was playing a gig, the other guitar player had his guitar in the case laying on its side. The bass player knocked the case flat on it's back and when the case was opened for sound check we found a '94 studio light with a cracked headstock. Needless to say not all cases are created equally. I have a '77 custom w/ohc, the headstock rests on the bottom of the case and the neck does not touch the support cradle. I put foam under the neck/body joint to raise the angle of the guitar in the case and then supported the headstock with more foam. So far so good.

bluesjuke · 12-25-05, 05:28 AM

Oh yeah don't forget- GEAR INSURANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!

sgtJoe · 12-25-05, 06:41 AM

A guitar will likely not survive a forceful impact when it is in the case. Kind of like trauma to the head from getting rear ended in a vehicle and the seatbelt keeping you from hitting the windshield. Your brain still gets knocked around in your skull and you wind up with a concussion. Same thing when a guitar in a case takes a blow or fall. Most breaks I've seen are from dropping and falling. An ounce of prevention is surely worth many pounds of cure when it comes to our axes.

Raptor · 12-25-05, 12:00 PM

The breaks are more common in LPs vice Strats due to the neck and headstock construction. LPs have an angled headstock and an angled neck, Strats do not. Lay your Lester flat on a table and you will see it rests on the top edge of the headstock and the edge of the body near the strap pin. Now lay your Strat there. The body lays flat on the table. Strat necks are no stronger, or not special, they will break at the headstock too if dropped the wrong way. The fact that the headstock hits the floor first if an LP is dropped backwards causes most of the breaks. In the typical LP case the neck is supported near the headstock, the piece that forms the neck support can act like a guillotine if the guitar falls heavily in it's case. Before someone starts saying that LPs have faulty engineering, and designs, remember that guitars were built for 100's of years with angled necks and headstocks, prior to the Les Paul. All Gibson did was carry on a traditional construction method while Leo took a different route. Your guitar is happiest in it's case, laying flat. Stands are meant to be someplace to set your guitar for a couple of hours during a gig, not permanent display.

davey · 12-25-05, 08:31 PM

The only headstock I've cracked was on my 65 Epiphone Olympic. It was on the stand and some clothing snagged on it and it dumped face first.

However, my first bass is a 71 EB-0. The headstock was broken at least twice before I got it, and 3 times after I got it. Oddly enough, I've never been the one to break it.

96 lppp · 12-25-05, 10:07 PM

I don't like my RO hanging on wall hangers so I use regular cotton wrapped stands at home. At a gig or practice I always use guitar case. Having drummer trip over stand and send my LP flying to concrete floor and cracking headstock over 20 years ago has brought serious paranoia and strong concern when my RO is not in case when "others" are around.

Wilko · 12-25-05, 11:03 PM

Another overlooked thing...
Do not lean the case against the wall. It can be knocked over and the guitar will break.

Zebracoils · 12-25-05, 11:15 PM

"The breaks are more common in LPs vice Strats due to the neck and headstock construction. LPs have an angled headstock and an angled neck, Strats do not. Lay your Lester flat on a table and you will see it rests on the top edge of the headstock and the edge of the body near the strap pin. Now lay your Strat there. The body lays flat on the table. Strat necks are no stronger, or not special, they will break at the headstock too if dropped the wrong way. The fact that the headstock hits the floor first if an LP is dropped backwards causes most of the breaks. In the typical LP case the neck is supported near the headstock, the piece that forms the neck support can act like a guillotine if the guitar falls heavily in it's case. Before someone starts saying that LPs have faulty engineering, and designs, remember that guitars were built for 100's of years with angled necks and headstocks, prior to the Les Paul. All Gibson did was carry on a traditional construction method while Leo took a different route. Your guitar is happiest in it's case, laying flat. Stands are meant to be someplace to set your guitar for a couple of hours during a gig, not permanent display."

Actually Gibsons break easier than fenders because of the set neck.The angle isn't the big deal.The glue joint is much stronger than the 4 bolts in a fender neck joint.When you drop a fender the neck will shift around the bolts taking some of the shock of the weaker area around the nut,headstock.A Gibson set neck design doesn't really move so all the shock is absorbed at the weakest area hence a cracked or broken headstock.

DANELECTRO · 12-26-05, 02:37 AM

I wouldn't be too concerned about headstock breaks, they're easy to fix.

Secret luthiers tip #1: Always remember to stain the screw heads in a matching finish to insure that the repair will be near-invisible.

Progrocker111 · 12-26-05, 02:48 AM

Oh, thats really awful photo. Very sadistic.

Thin_Lizzy · 12-26-05, 02:57 AM

Ough! That hurts! :dead: =(

jrfisher · 12-26-05, 03:56 AM

Now theres a guitar I'd like to see on eBay. It would be interesting to see what price it would fetch

bluesjuke · 12-26-05, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebracoils

Actually Gibsons break easier than fenders because of the set neck.The angle isn't the big deal.The glue joint is much stronger than the 4 bolts in a fender neck joint.When you drop a fender the neck will shift around the bolts taking some of the shock of the weaker area around the nut,headstock.A Gibson set neck design doesn't really move so all the shock is absorbed at the weakest area hence a cracked or broken headstock.

Good point.
The neck on a Fender being hard maple plays a big part in that too.

Wire and wood · 12-26-05, 10:43 AM

That is a very sad thing to do to a musical instrument.

FretNot · 12-26-05, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilko

Another overlooked thing...
Do not lean the case against the wall. It can be knocked over and the guitar will break.

My R7 has twice taken a fall in it's case from being leaned up against a wall. It was in a Gibson Protector case and forunately no damage was done but I agree that leaning a case against a wall isn't a smart thing to do. You're also likely to have a heart attack if you see it going down. :2lol

SunburstKid · 12-26-05, 11:12 AM

Just when you thought you've seen it all...

Luthiers are professionals. DO NOT attempt this at home.

They really went to town on that one Phillips head.

Wilko · 12-26-05, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebracoils

Actually Gibsons break easier than fenders because of the set neck.The angle isn't the big deal.The glue joint is much stronger than the 4 bolts in a fender neck joint.When you drop a fender the neck will shift around the bolts taking some of the shock of the weaker area around the nut,headstock.A Gibson set neck design doesn't really move so all the shock is absorbed at the weakest area hence a cracked or broken headstock.

Well. No.

The difference in the wood, and the grain alignment make the Gibson type headstock more vulnerable to breaking. The neck jointmay, or may not play a part.

The necks are usually cut on abais to reduce the exposureof crossgrain at the angle.

bluesjuke · 12-26-05, 07:35 PM

You know I'm always careful with my guitars & warn others of potential dangers if in close proximity to them.
One day I decided to tone it down a bit & relaxed some. Wham put a good ding in one of my Lesters while changing my routine slightly.
The why of the ding hurt more than the ding itself because I knew better & could have avoided it.

Damage can occur a myriad of ways but an ounce of prevention..........

Raptor · 12-26-05, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Zebracoils said
Actually Gibsons break easier than fenders because of the set neck.The angle isn't the big deal.The glue joint is much stronger than the 4 bolts in a fender neck joint.When you drop a fender the neck will shift around the bolts taking some of the shock of the weaker area around the nut,headstock.A Gibson set neck design doesn't really move so all the shock is absorbed at the weakest area hence a cracked or broken headstock.

Then why do bolt on neck Epiphone LPs break too (at the headstock), when they fall over?? Or other bolt on neck, angled headstock guitars?

Quote:

And Bluesjuke said,
Good point.
The neck on a Fender being hard maple plays a big part in that too

Gee what about all those maple neck Lesters from the 70's with their headstock breaks?

jrgtr42 · 12-26-05, 08:43 PM

OW!!!! that is about the most painful thing I;ve seen in the year (almost) I've been hanging out in this forum, whether lucking or posting...
whoever did that should have all tools taken away from him...

Zebracoils · 12-26-05, 09:20 PM

"Then why do bolt on neck Epiphone LPs break too (at the headstock), when they fall over?? Or other bolt on neck, angled headstock guitars? "

I'm not saying that isn't part of it but set neck fenders without an angle break as well when they're dropped because of the neck jointbeing stronger than the wood.
Yes angling the headstock plays a part as well,but not all set neck guitars break right there anyway.I've seen quit a few break well below the nut so what does that tell you?

bluesjuke · 12-26-05, 09:57 PM

Raptor -
Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Zebracoils said
Actually Gibsons break easier than fenders because of the set neck.The angle isn't the big deal.The glue joint is much stronger than the 4 bolts in a fender neck joint.When you drop a fender the neck will shift around the bolts taking some of the shock of the weaker area around the nut,headstock.A Gibson set neck design doesn't really move so all the shock is absorbed at the weakest area hence a cracked or broken headstock.

Then why do bolt on neck Epiphone LPs break too (at the headstock), when they fall over?? Or other bolt on neck, angled headstock guitars?

Quote:
And Bluesjuke said,
Good point.
The neck on a Fender being hard maple plays a big part in that too

Gee what about all those maple neck Lesters from the 70's with their headstock breaks?
__________________

What's your point?

No one said that some necks don't break.

There are different factors involved in varius construction methods & materials that make breaks less common in some models.
I see quite a few Gibson headstock breaks being discussed on a regular basis.
I have not seen or heard of that many similar breaks on Fenders in almost 43 years of playing.

Raptor · 12-26-05, 10:00 PM

Zebracoils, well the headstock, is typically the weakest point in the neck if the entire neck is flawless (yeah right a flawless piece of wood LOL). But they do break at other locations, depending on weaknesses and the accident. Bolt on necks, as well as set necks break. Fenders as well as Gibsons. The dynamics of why, truly depend on each guitar and the accident involved. My key point is that Fender necks are not really stronger, and bolt on is not better than set neck in preventing the headstock break. The angled neck and headstock on a Lester put it at a natural disadvantage when it comes to surviving a fall. Gibson has tried volutes, laminated multi piece necks, and maple necks they all break too. As I said in my first post, it was a design carry over from hundreds of years, and an integral part of the charm that makes a Lester a Lester.

Wire and wood · 12-26-05, 10:02 PM

So when you hear stories like Gary Rossington leaving the studio one night and coming in the next morning to a mysteriously broken headstock, basically it didn't happen just sitting there on a stand? Somebody went in there after him and knocked the guitar over?

Raptor · 12-26-05, 10:38 PM

Well Wire and Wood, there is a mysterious gnome who hates guitars, and sneaks around breaking headstocks. Gary wasn't the first, or last to find his guitar with a broken headstock, and everyone shaking their heads saying 'I didn't do it!' Who knows exactly what happened? One would suspect it was knocked over and no one owned up to it.
Your guitar is at it's safest in the case, laying flat or on it's side. Careful stowage and handling go a long long way to preventing breaks, but accidents do happen occasionally no matter how careful you are.

Wire and wood · 12-26-05, 11:39 PM

Cool, thanks. I have been playing Fenders for a long time and it seems you can beat those boat paddles pretty hard sometimes. Now that I have my hands on a Lester that I want to keep around for a while, I'd like to see it well cared for.

Crunchyriff · 12-27-05, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

Well Wire and Wood, there is a mysterious gnome who hates guitars, and sneaks around breaking headstocks. Gary wasn't the first, or last to find his guitar with a broken headstock, and everyone shaking their heads saying 'I didn't do it!' Who knows exactly what happened? One would suspect it was knocked over and no one owned up to it.
Your guitar is at it's safest in the case, laying flat or on it's side. Careful stowage and handling go a long long way to preventing breaks, but accidents do happen occasionally no matter how careful you are.

I've had some of my own past bandmembers be responsible for damage to my gear, and no, hell no, they don't own up to it...

Ya wanna know another thing that just BEGS for headstock breakage on Gibbys?

Gigbags. Gig bags are great for Fenders. You can be as "careful as you can" so as to guarantee in your mind that your Gibby will be allright. But, ohhh that one time you don't plan for; and let's face it, a case is a primary protection protocol for your instrument. Would you knowingly put your kid in a defective carseat? Ya need a solid case WITH proper neck support.

that nice Gibby headstock angle is just asking for trouble.

Progrocker111 · 12-27-05, 01:45 AM

And what about 75-82 maple necked Gibsons? Any owner here with their headstock crack? As i remember, i saw much less broken maple neck Les Pauls than mahogany from 70s Lesters on Ebay for example.
Any experience? Are they really sturdier?

C-4 · 12-27-05, 06:45 AM

One thing that has not been mentioned (or I might I have not seen it printed here) is that the headstock, just beyond the nut, has the least amount of wood due to the truss rod cavitiy. There is less then 1/2 of an inch of wood there and usually less then that and the string tension pulling up on the headstock are two reasons that just beg for a broken headstock at that point with the least amount of force applied.

I have seen scarfed necks come apart at the scarf joint as well on maple neck guitars such as Schecters Korean line and some Epi's. While maple necks may be stronger then mahogany, there is really no way to tell why some necks break and some don't.

A friend of mine has a real 59 burst that fell off of a music stand and absolutely nothing happened to the neck. A lucky fall? Perhaps, but most guitars that I have seen fall as this one did, have wound up broken or splintered. Maybe the old wood was just better wood! Who knows for sure.

I've given up on using a guitar stand. I put the guitar in the case and latch it and place it completely out of harms way, like up against a wall where it is least likely to have any contact with a human being.

bluespckr · 12-27-05, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANELECTRO

I wouldn't be too concerned about headstock breaks, they're easy to fix.

Secret luthiers tip #1: Always remember to stain the screw heads in a matching finish to insure that the repair will be near-invisible.

Oooo-weee --- someone sure "screwed" up that baby!

I had the headstock snapped off on my '75 LP Standard, in large part because I had set it in a guitar stand, that was in front of a set of drums, between sets at a Fourth of July gig in Lubec, Maine, in 1991.

There was seating in an area behind the drums, and a rail separated that area from the bandstand. Some yahoo thought it would be great fun to give the drums a kick forward, off the riser that was part of the elevated stage, when we took a break ... the drums pushed forward and into the back of the guitar and the stand --- and the guitar took flight, off the stand, bounced off the stage, and crashed face down onto the hard floor several feet below!!!!

It stayed in a case for 14 years, broken, until this past summer when I discovered this forum and Dan Erlewine, who agreed to try and repair it. Last I heard, he was rebuilding the headstock.

So was it entirely the guitar stand's fault? Well, if I had placed "Gertie" in a case between sets, she wouldn't have taken such a fall.

96 lppp · 12-27-05, 06:07 PM

[quote=Raptor]Well Wire and Wood, there is a mysterious gnome who hates guitars, and sneaks around breaking headstocks. This is true. These gnomes frequent nightclubs and wait till the second set when everyone has had a few drinks and then they rock the stand until your axe dives to the floor. The only sanctuary where these gnomes can't get to your LP is in latched ATA Anvil guitar case laid horizontal. :bonk

Zebracoils · 12-27-05, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Progrocker111

And what about 75-82 maple necked Gibsons? Any owner here with their headstock crack? As i remember, i saw much less broken maple neck Les Pauls than mahogany from 70s Lesters on Ebay for example.
Any experience? Are they really sturdier?

They were also 3 piece necks,I'm sure there were some that broke,but you don't see them like you do one piece mahogany necks.

Zebracoils · 12-27-05, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANELECTRO

I wouldn't be too concerned about headstock breaks, they're easy to fix.

Secret luthiers tip #1: Always remember to stain the screw heads in a matching finish to insure that the repair will be near-invisible.

WOW

you can hardly tell it was broke.

Ad_02Std · 12-27-05, 06:37 PM

I always though that mahogany was just more brittle than maple, plus the angled headstock means that there is a weak spot where the grain runs behind the nut. I have never seen a broken neck on a Fender.

Wire and wood · 12-27-05, 07:55 PM

Watch certain Hendrix footage.

The Fender Forum	The Cafe Wah	LilyPix
Merchandise	Vintage Guitar Registry	LPF Homesite

12-24-05, 10:52 PM	#2
jrgtr42 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,304	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Howdy....not a stupid question by any means...the only stupid ones are the questions not asked. Headstocks on Gibsons are more delicate than on, say a Fender, but it;s not going to break under normal use and storage. It'll take a pretty good shot in just the right place toi crack it, even if there's no volute (triangular chunk of wood left at the neck/headstock junction) What would do it is, for instance, falling off a stand, and hitting the ground nut first. That amount of force concentrated on such a small area would rack it pretty well. Just normal usage and storage won't break it.

12-24-05, 11:22 PM	#3
MrMike Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Midland, MI Posts: 1,846	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break It's been said by several repairmen here that guitar stands are most often the culprit for headstock breaks. The consensus seems to be that even the best stands are a poor substitute for keeping the guitar in the case when you're not playing it. __________________ You can't really dust for vomit.

12-25-05, 02:33 AM	#4
jrfisher Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 910	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Always unplug the guitar before setting it down. I've heard lots of stories about guitars being knocked off stands because someone tripped over the cord.

12-25-05, 05:04 AM	#6
77CUSTOM Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: OHIO Posts: 420	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break One time my band was playing a gig, the other guitar player had his guitar in the case laying on its side. The bass player knocked the case flat on it's back and when the case was opened for sound check we found a '94 studio light with a cracked headstock. Needless to say not all cases are created equally. I have a '77 custom w/ohc, the headstock rests on the bottom of the case and the neck does not touch the support cradle. I put foam under the neck/body joint to raise the angle of the guitar in the case and then supported the headstock with more foam. So far so good. __________________ Life is good.................

12-24-05, 10:23 PM	#1
Wire and wood Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 503	Preventing the infamous headstock break I've seen and heard of so many Les Pauls with cracked or broken headstocks that I was wondering just how delicate they really are? What I mean is, does this damage occur from just regular hanging on wall peg or are these guitars which are getting abused? Maybe a stupid question but I still wonder about it so if anyone would care to indulge me.

12-25-05, 05:28 AM	#7
bluesjuke Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bluesland,Texas Posts: 6,064	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Oh yeah don't forget- GEAR INSURANCE!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ "Brings me the most special feeling I most ever had"

12-25-05, 06:41 AM	#8
sgtJoe Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Locust Grove, GA Posts: 1,739	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break A guitar will likely not survive a forceful impact when it is in the case. Kind of like trauma to the head from getting rear ended in a vehicle and the seatbelt keeping you from hitting the windshield. Your brain still gets knocked around in your skull and you wind up with a concussion. Same thing when a guitar in a case takes a blow or fall. Most breaks I've seen are from dropping and falling. An ounce of prevention is surely worth many pounds of cure when it comes to our axes.

12-25-05, 12:00 PM	#9
Raptor Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 488	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break The breaks are more common in LPs vice Strats due to the neck and headstock construction. LPs have an angled headstock and an angled neck, Strats do not. Lay your Lester flat on a table and you will see it rests on the top edge of the headstock and the edge of the body near the strap pin. Now lay your Strat there. The body lays flat on the table. Strat necks are no stronger, or not special, they will break at the headstock too if dropped the wrong way. The fact that the headstock hits the floor first if an LP is dropped backwards causes most of the breaks. In the typical LP case the neck is supported near the headstock, the piece that forms the neck support can act like a guillotine if the guitar falls heavily in it's case. Before someone starts saying that LPs have faulty engineering, and designs, remember that guitars were built for 100's of years with angled necks and headstocks, prior to the Les Paul. All Gibson did was carry on a traditional construction method while Leo took a different route. Your guitar is happiest in it's case, laying flat. Stands are meant to be someplace to set your guitar for a couple of hours during a gig, not permanent display. __________________ My wife and I have a simple arrangement. I can only buy guitars that she likes. Thank God, she loves every one that I try!

12-25-05, 08:31 PM	#10
davey Gimme a dollar dummie! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Upyerasskickinfootballs Posts: 1,605	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break The only headstock I've cracked was on my 65 Epiphone Olympic. It was on the stand and some clothing snagged on it and it dumped face first. However, my first bass is a 71 EB-0. The headstock was broken at least twice before I got it, and 3 times after I got it. Oddly enough, I've never been the one to break it. __________________ *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award* "Some people are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything, but you still can’t help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs." "Body by Fisher....Brains by Fisher-Price"

12-25-05, 10:07 PM	#11
96 lppp Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: IL by the Missisippi River Posts: 747	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break I don't like my RO hanging on wall hangers so I use regular cotton wrapped stands at home. At a gig or practice I always use guitar case. Having drummer trip over stand and send my LP flying to concrete floor and cracking headstock over 20 years ago has brought serious paranoia and strong concern when my RO is not in case when "others" are around.

12-25-05, 11:03 PM	#12
Wilko All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 15,581	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Another overlooked thing... Do not lean the case against the wall. It can be knocked over and the guitar will break.

12-25-05, 11:15 PM	#13
Zebracoils Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 235	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break "The breaks are more common in LPs vice Strats due to the neck and headstock construction. LPs have an angled headstock and an angled neck, Strats do not. Lay your Lester flat on a table and you will see it rests on the top edge of the headstock and the edge of the body near the strap pin. Now lay your Strat there. The body lays flat on the table. Strat necks are no stronger, or not special, they will break at the headstock too if dropped the wrong way. The fact that the headstock hits the floor first if an LP is dropped backwards causes most of the breaks. In the typical LP case the neck is supported near the headstock, the piece that forms the neck support can act like a guillotine if the guitar falls heavily in it's case. Before someone starts saying that LPs have faulty engineering, and designs, remember that guitars were built for 100's of years with angled necks and headstocks, prior to the Les Paul. All Gibson did was carry on a traditional construction method while Leo took a different route. Your guitar is happiest in it's case, laying flat. Stands are meant to be someplace to set your guitar for a couple of hours during a gig, not permanent display." Actually Gibsons break easier than fenders because of the set neck.The angle isn't the big deal.The glue joint is much stronger than the 4 bolts in a fender neck joint.When you drop a fender the neck will shift around the bolts taking some of the shock of the weaker area around the nut,headstock.A Gibson set neck design doesn't really move so all the shock is absorbed at the weakest area hence a cracked or broken headstock.

12-26-05, 02:37 AM	#14
DANELECTRO All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,337	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break I wouldn't be too concerned about headstock breaks, they're easy to fix. Secret luthiers tip #1: Always remember to stain the screw heads in a matching finish to insure that the repair will be near-invisible.

12-26-05, 02:48 AM	#15
Progrocker111 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: small country full of nice women and good beer Posts: 1,641	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Oh, thats really awful photo. Very sadistic. __________________ My diagnosis is: Hiwattphilia

12-26-05, 02:57 AM	#16
Thin_Lizzy Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,282	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Ough! That hurts! :dead: =( __________________ My Róisín Dubh is my one and only true love Ducati 916: The Beauty and the Beast

12-26-05, 03:56 AM	#17
jrfisher Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 910	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Now theres a guitar I'd like to see on eBay. It would be interesting to see what price it would fetch

12-26-05, 10:43 AM	#19
Wire and wood Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 503	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break That is a very sad thing to do to a musical instrument.

12-26-05, 11:12 AM	#21
SunburstKid LPF Recording Artist Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: coming to a town near you Posts: 589	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Just when you thought you've seen it all... Luthiers are professionals. DO NOT attempt this at home. They really went to town on that one Phillips head. __________________ "Sex, drugs, powerlines and vaccinations...something's gonna do you in."

12-26-05, 07:35 PM	#23
bluesjuke Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bluesland,Texas Posts: 6,064	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break You know I'm always careful with my guitars & warn others of potential dangers if in close proximity to them. One day I decided to tone it down a bit & relaxed some. Wham put a good ding in one of my Lesters while changing my routine slightly. The why of the ding hurt more than the ding itself because I knew better & could have avoided it. Damage can occur a myriad of ways but an ounce of prevention.......... __________________ "Brings me the most special feeling I most ever had"

12-26-05, 08:43 PM	#25
jrgtr42 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,304	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break OW!!!! that is about the most painful thing I;ve seen in the year (almost) I've been hanging out in this forum, whether lucking or posting... whoever did that should have all tools taken away from him...

12-26-05, 09:20 PM	#26
Zebracoils Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 235	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break "Then why do bolt on neck Epiphone LPs break too (at the headstock), when they fall over?? Or other bolt on neck, angled headstock guitars? " I'm not saying that isn't part of it but set neck fenders without an angle break as well when they're dropped because of the neck jointbeing stronger than the wood. Yes angling the headstock plays a part as well,but not all set neck guitars break right there anyway.I've seen quit a few break well below the nut so what does that tell you?

12-26-05, 09:57 PM	#27
bluesjuke Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bluesland,Texas Posts: 6,064	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Raptor - Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Zebracoils said Actually Gibsons break easier than fenders because of the set neck.The angle isn't the big deal.The glue joint is much stronger than the 4 bolts in a fender neck joint.When you drop a fender the neck will shift around the bolts taking some of the shock of the weaker area around the nut,headstock.A Gibson set neck design doesn't really move so all the shock is absorbed at the weakest area hence a cracked or broken headstock. Then why do bolt on neck Epiphone LPs break too (at the headstock), when they fall over?? Or other bolt on neck, angled headstock guitars? Quote: And Bluesjuke said, Good point. The neck on a Fender being hard maple plays a big part in that too Gee what about all those maple neck Lesters from the 70's with their headstock breaks? __________________ What's your point? No one said that some necks don't break. There are different factors involved in varius construction methods & materials that make breaks less common in some models. I see quite a few Gibson headstock breaks being discussed on a regular basis. I have not seen or heard of that many similar breaks on Fenders in almost 43 years of playing. __________________ "Brings me the most special feeling I most ever had"

12-26-05, 10:00 PM	#28
Raptor Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 488	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Zebracoils, well the headstock, is typically the weakest point in the neck if the entire neck is flawless (yeah right a flawless piece of wood LOL). But they do break at other locations, depending on weaknesses and the accident. Bolt on necks, as well as set necks break. Fenders as well as Gibsons. The dynamics of why, truly depend on each guitar and the accident involved. My key point is that Fender necks are not really stronger, and bolt on is not better than set neck in preventing the headstock break. The angled neck and headstock on a Lester put it at a natural disadvantage when it comes to surviving a fall. Gibson has tried volutes, laminated multi piece necks, and maple necks they all break too. As I said in my first post, it was a design carry over from hundreds of years, and an integral part of the charm that makes a Lester a Lester. __________________ My wife and I have a simple arrangement. I can only buy guitars that she likes. Thank God, she loves every one that I try!

12-26-05, 10:02 PM	#29
Wire and wood Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 503	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break So when you hear stories like Gary Rossington leaving the studio one night and coming in the next morning to a mysteriously broken headstock, basically it didn't happen just sitting there on a stand? Somebody went in there after him and knocked the guitar over?

12-26-05, 10:38 PM	#30
Raptor Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 488	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Well Wire and Wood, there is a mysterious gnome who hates guitars, and sneaks around breaking headstocks. Gary wasn't the first, or last to find his guitar with a broken headstock, and everyone shaking their heads saying 'I didn't do it!' Who knows exactly what happened? One would suspect it was knocked over and no one owned up to it. Your guitar is at it's safest in the case, laying flat or on it's side. Careful stowage and handling go a long long way to preventing breaks, but accidents do happen occasionally no matter how careful you are. __________________ My wife and I have a simple arrangement. I can only buy guitars that she likes. Thank God, she loves every one that I try!

12-26-05, 11:39 PM	#31
Wire and wood Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 503	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Cool, thanks. I have been playing Fenders for a long time and it seems you can beat those boat paddles pretty hard sometimes. Now that I have my hands on a Lester that I want to keep around for a while, I'd like to see it well cared for.

12-27-05, 01:45 AM	#33
Progrocker111 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: small country full of nice women and good beer Posts: 1,641	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break And what about 75-82 maple necked Gibsons? Any owner here with their headstock crack? As i remember, i saw much less broken maple neck Les Pauls than mahogany from 70s Lesters on Ebay for example. Any experience? Are they really sturdier? __________________ My diagnosis is: Hiwattphilia

12-27-05, 06:45 AM	#34
C-4 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,613	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break One thing that has not been mentioned (or I might I have not seen it printed here) is that the headstock, just beyond the nut, has the least amount of wood due to the truss rod cavitiy. There is less then 1/2 of an inch of wood there and usually less then that and the string tension pulling up on the headstock are two reasons that just beg for a broken headstock at that point with the least amount of force applied. I have seen scarfed necks come apart at the scarf joint as well on maple neck guitars such as Schecters Korean line and some Epi's. While maple necks may be stronger then mahogany, there is really no way to tell why some necks break and some don't. A friend of mine has a real 59 burst that fell off of a music stand and absolutely nothing happened to the neck. A lucky fall? Perhaps, but most guitars that I have seen fall as this one did, have wound up broken or splintered. Maybe the old wood was just better wood! Who knows for sure. I've given up on using a guitar stand. I put the guitar in the case and latch it and place it completely out of harms way, like up against a wall where it is least likely to have any contact with a human being.

12-27-05, 06:07 PM	#36
96 lppp Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: IL by the Missisippi River Posts: 747	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break [quote=Raptor]Well Wire and Wood, there is a mysterious gnome who hates guitars, and sneaks around breaking headstocks. This is true. These gnomes frequent nightclubs and wait till the second set when everyone has had a few drinks and then they rock the stand until your axe dives to the floor. The only sanctuary where these gnomes can't get to your LP is in latched ATA Anvil guitar case laid horizontal. :bonk

12-27-05, 06:37 PM	#39
Ad_02Std Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Over the green hills Posts: 3,031	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break I always though that mahogany was just more brittle than maple, plus the angled headstock means that there is a weak spot where the grain runs behind the nut. I have never seen a broken neck on a Fender.

12-27-05, 07:55 PM	#40
Wire and wood Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 503	Re: Preventing the infamous headstock break Watch certain Hendrix footage.