Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered

CSwanston21 · 11-06-09, 06:06 PM

Moore wins, Montrose loses.

Judgment entered yesterday.

The case was dismissed for lack of personal jurisdiction over Moore. Moore argued that He has not performed in the US since 1997, and had not been in California since 1992. He acknowleged that CDs and DVDs are sold in California, but argued that this was purely passive activity in relation to him as it was carried out by retailers, not by him personally. He pointed out that simply placing a product in the stream of commerce that eventually finds its way to Califonria is not a sufficient contact with the state toi nsubject him to jursidcition there.

Montrose responded that the Gary Moore signature guitar, modelled in part on his stolen guitar, was sold in the San Francisco Guitar Center, and that royalties from these sales were paid to Moore. He also relied heavily on sales activity through itunes, based near San Francisco, and other businesses, yielding royalties to Moore from sales in California.

Alternatively, Montrose argued that Moore's continuing refusal to turn over the guitar was itself a wrongful act, and that Moore knew all the while that Montrose resided in California. Interestingly, Montrose recalled a conversation with Moore where they explored the possibility of musical collaboration, which was ultimately aborted because Moore did not want to come to the US, and Montrose did not want to go to the UK.

Unfortunately for Montrose, his declaration, which was to provide supporting evidence for his contentions, was stricken because it was filed 17 days late.

By the way, Moore states that he bought the guitar in London 20 eyars ago from a reputable dealer named Gary Winterflood. Moore did not dispute, nor did he affirm, the conversation attested to by Montrose about a possible musical collaboration between the two.

Montrose has some time to file an appeal from the judgment. Will he? IOt all depends on how justified the court might have been in striking his declaration, because unless the court of appeal considers the evidence supplied by his declaration, he has little chance of overturning the trial court's decision.

That's the latest. And maybe the last, unless Montrose wants to proceed in the UK.

JRW8214@AOL.COM · 11-06-09, 06:15 PM

There's how our wonderful system works for ya(Sarcasm)

BobV · 11-06-09, 08:40 PM

Nobody won, nobody lost. This particular case is dismissed on jurisdictional grounds - there was never any decision on the merits and there's plenty of recourse for new lawsuits in other jurisdictions. Montrose just can't do it on his own home turf, that's all.

lpnv59 · 11-06-09, 10:13 PM

Ronnie don't need that worn out shitbox anyway. RM would sound better than GM, playing a boat anchor, sandwich body Norlin, thru a Pignose with almost dead batteries, than Moore could ever sound when playing Stripe thru EC's original Bluesbreaker Combo. Just listen to those first 2 Montrose albums. To my tinnitus addled ears, Paper Money is way better than any Parmesean Walkway 2 Heaven POS.

CocoTone · 11-06-09, 10:24 PM

CT.

keef · 11-07-09, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

To my tinnitus addled ears, Paper Money is way better than any Parmesean Walkway 2 Heaven POS.

dlmorley · 11-07-09, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

Ronnie don't need that worn out shitbox anyway. RM would sound better than GM, playing a boat anchor, sandwich body Norlin, thru a Pignose with almost dead batteries, than Moore could ever sound when playing Stripe thru EC's original Bluesbreaker Combo. Just listen to those first 2 Montrose albums. To my tinnitus addled ears, Paper Money is way better than any Parmesean Walkway 2 Heaven POS.

In your opinion of course

Cogswell · 11-07-09, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

Ronnie don't need that worn out shitbox anyway. RM would sound better than GM, playing a boat anchor, sandwich body Norlin, thru a Pignose with almost dead batteries, than Moore could ever sound when playing Stripe thru EC's original Bluesbreaker Combo. Just listen to those first 2 Montrose albums. To my tinnitus addled ears, Paper Money is way better than any Parmesean Walkway 2 Heaven POS.

THANK YOU

lpnv59 · 11-07-09, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlmorley

In your opinion of course

Yes of course. My opinion.....after 3 martinis in rather quick succession and an unsuccessful make out session with a rather hot MILF. The result of which was frustratingly posted above. I suppose I could of

figuratively instead of literally. Or do I have that backwards.

Regardless, I stand by my words / sincere drunken rant anyway.

Mark Kane · 11-07-09, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

Yes of course. My opinion.....after 3 martinis in rather quick succession and an unsuccessful make out session with a rather hot MILF. The result of which was frustratingly posted above. I suppose I could of

figuratively instead of literally. Or do I have that backwards.

Regardless, I stand by my words / sincere drunken rant anyway.

better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all

lpnv59 · 11-07-09, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Kane

better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all

I ain't giving up. There will be a next time......dude.

TomGuitar · 11-07-09, 06:04 AM

I love it when you've been drinking Billy.

shuie · 11-07-09, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobV

Nobody won

The lawyers won.

sgtJoe · 11-07-09, 06:32 AM

I spoke to Montrose's attorney, there are a few more things he can do.

kerryboy · 11-07-09, 06:44 AM

I don't profess to understanding legal judgments, but is this one about the allegedly stolen guitar. If so, does this ruling mean that Moore keeps it and Montrose has no claim on it.

DONLP · 11-07-09, 07:08 AM

Not surprised at the outcome.

Elliot Easton · 11-07-09, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

Yes of course. My opinion.....after 3 martinis in rather quick succession and an unsuccessful make out session with a rather hot MILF. The result of which was frustratingly posted above. I suppose I could of

figuratively instead of literally. Or do I have that backwards.

Regardless, I stand by my words / sincere drunken rant anyway.

comedy gold-hey billy!

Dire Wolf · 11-07-09, 07:38 AM

Damn it, we'll take this to the Supreme Court if we have to!

lpnv59 · 11-07-09, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliot Easton

comedy gold-hey billy!

Hey E, How are you? Its been too long. Thanks, glad you laughed. Apparently the LPF wasn't the only location that I ranted in. I had to make nice on the web this morning on Face Book too.

Give me a call soon so we catch up.

frank3si · 11-07-09, 08:10 AM

Though I was pretty much obsessed with the first two Montrose albums and interviewed Ronnie for a Vintage Guitar cover feature a few years ago, I also really like Moore's playing as well. The whole thing's a shame...

Breakfastime · 11-07-09, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerryboy

I don't profess to understanding legal judgments, but is this one about the allegedly stolen guitar. If so, does this ruling mean that Moore keeps it and Montrose has no claim on it.

Sort of. I think it means that Moore has nothing to worry about, unless Montrose decides to pursue the matter in the UK, on Moore's turf (an expensive proposition).

Basically, I think the outcome at this stage of the game is that the court found that Moore doesn't have sufficient business ties in the state of California for the case to be tried in that state...they (the court) never even got around to discussing guitars or anything cool like that yet.

This could drag on for as long as Montrose can afford to throw money at it.

Maybe Ronnie should just give Max a call.

CDaughtry · 11-07-09, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuie

The lawyers won.

You say that like it's a bad thing....

CocoTone · 11-07-09, 02:06 PM

This whole thing stinks. If Moore bought the guitar from a reputable dealer, then surely the lineage of the guitar was known then. He knew then, he knows, the whole guitar world knows now, who the rightful owner is.

CT.

m_rambler · 11-07-09, 05:59 PM

They are both hacks. They should take that guitar off Gary, give him and Ronnie an epiphone each and give the burst to Mick Taylor.

shuie · 11-07-09, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDaughtry

You say that like it's a bad thing....

No, not a bad thing at all. Someone had to do it. Good for them.

Rude Dog · 11-07-09, 06:12 PM

Mr. Swanston, When ya gonna give me that ugly red LP you got layin' around?

Wiggy · 11-07-09, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDaughtry

You say that like it's a bad thing....

CSwanston21 · 11-07-09, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rude Dog

Mr. Swanston, When ya gonna give me that ugly red LP you got layin' around?

Little Robert, why don't you return my Egnater and my headswitcher before you start getting cocky and talking sh*t about the red Les Paul?

Wait til you see the Johnny A. It's the sh*t.

I just got the call last week to do the SV Blues gig again. Give me a call about playing.

I've got copies of all of the court documents in the Montrose v. Moore case. Send me an email at my office if you want them. I'll attach them to the reply.

Overdriver · 11-07-09, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSwanston21

Moore argued that He has not performed in the US since 1997, and had not been in California since 1992.

That's the part that surprises me. I wonder why he hasn't played over here in 12 years. As far Moore and Montrose's respective playing abilities and styles, what has that got to do with the lawsuit? My 2 cents would be that I like both of them. They both have great tone and feel and neither of them NEEDS a vintage Les Paul to have great tone, make a good living and make enjoyable music. The value of the guitar is, I suppose, what's at stake. If it wasn't valuable, Moore would give it back.

Wilko · 11-07-09, 11:00 PM

If that guitar is the duck that it quacks like, Moore is a fucking chicken shit asshole.

He sure looks afraid to visit CA. Fuck that guy. His red leather Michael Jackson is reason enough.

gmann · 11-08-09, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtJoe

I spoke to Montrose's attorney, there are a few more things he can do.

Like hopefully not filing any more declarations 17 days late, top legal manuervering there. This thread seem to be going in the direction of who you like better as a guitarist, Moore or Montrose. How many of you, having bought a 'burst 20 yrs ago, in good faith, fm a reputable dealer, would be so keen to give it back?

BadMotorScooter · 11-08-09, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

Ronnie don't need that worn out shitbox anyway. RM would sound better than GM, playing a boat anchor, sandwich body Norlin, thru a Pignose with almost dead batteries, than Moore could ever sound when playing Stripe thru EC's original Bluesbreaker Combo. Just listen to those first 2 Montrose albums. To my tinnitus addled ears, Paper Money is way better than any Parmesean Walkway 2 Heaven POS.

I couldn't have said it better myself. And I'm not a Montrose fan. And I'm sober.

Overdriver · 11-08-09, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

Ronnie don't need that worn out shitbox anyway. RM would sound better than GM, playing a boat anchor, sandwich body Norlin, thru a Pignose with almost dead batteries, than Moore could ever sound when playing Stripe thru EC's original Bluesbreaker Combo. Just listen to those first 2 Montrose albums. To my tinnitus addled ears, Paper Money is way better than any Parmesean Walkway 2 Heaven POS.

Yes, but then you do have those tinnitus addled ears...........so that's not much to go on......

JRW8214@AOL.COM · 11-08-09, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMotorScooter

I couldn't have said it better myself. And I'm not a Montrose fan. And I'm sober.

Your name is BadMotorScooter and you arent a Montrose fan???

kerryboy · 11-08-09, 01:11 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by sgtJoe
I spoke to Montrose's attorney, there are a few more things he can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmann

Like hopefully not filing any more declarations 17 days late, top legal manuervering there. This thread seem to be going in the direction of who you like better as a guitarist, Moore or Montrose. How many of you, having bought a 'burst 20 yrs ago, in good faith, fm a reputable dealer, would be so keen to give it back?

I agree, what a 'knob' of an attorney. Can't even deal with the basic requirement of filing on time.

There was never any chance that Moore was just going simply to hand this guitar back, even through all the armchair lawyers on this forum said that it was just a formality.

I wonder if Moore used a UK based attorney or a US one.

Humbuck · 11-08-09, 02:03 AM

I just wanna see Ronnie get his 'burst back! Let's start a web petition.

j45 · 11-08-09, 03:27 AM

This is some funny $h*t....

sgtJoe · 11-08-09, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmann

Like hopefully not filing any more declarations 17 days late, top legal manuervering there. This thread seem to be going in the direction of who you like better as a guitarist, Moore or Montrose. How many of you, having bought a 'burst 20 yrs ago, in good faith, fm a reputable dealer, would be so keen to give it back?

People rarely want to give back something they paid good money for, even after they've learn that it's a stolen item. Pawn shop owners whine that tune all the time. That's why we go to judges and obtain warrants for the return of the item. When I spoke to Montrose's attorney that's one of the things we spoke of, involvement of local authorities as well as some political influence. Don't know what will happen next. I can only advise my friends to record their serial numbers, store photos in a safe place and hold the governments feet to the fire. There's a lesson here for all of us to learn from.

sunburst1 · 11-08-09, 09:06 AM

Dose this mean an end is in sight to the hero worship threads in the vintage section?

sgtJoe · 11-08-09, 09:11 AM

I doubt that will ever come to an end.

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11-06-09, 06:06 PM	#1
CSwanston21 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 62	Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Moore wins, Montrose loses. Judgment entered yesterday. The case was dismissed for lack of personal jurisdiction over Moore. Moore argued that He has not performed in the US since 1997, and had not been in California since 1992. He acknowleged that CDs and DVDs are sold in California, but argued that this was purely passive activity in relation to him as it was carried out by retailers, not by him personally. He pointed out that simply placing a product in the stream of commerce that eventually finds its way to Califonria is not a sufficient contact with the state toi nsubject him to jursidcition there. Montrose responded that the Gary Moore signature guitar, modelled in part on his stolen guitar, was sold in the San Francisco Guitar Center, and that royalties from these sales were paid to Moore. He also relied heavily on sales activity through itunes, based near San Francisco, and other businesses, yielding royalties to Moore from sales in California. Alternatively, Montrose argued that Moore's continuing refusal to turn over the guitar was itself a wrongful act, and that Moore knew all the while that Montrose resided in California. Interestingly, Montrose recalled a conversation with Moore where they explored the possibility of musical collaboration, which was ultimately aborted because Moore did not want to come to the US, and Montrose did not want to go to the UK. Unfortunately for Montrose, his declaration, which was to provide supporting evidence for his contentions, was stricken because it was filed 17 days late. By the way, Moore states that he bought the guitar in London 20 eyars ago from a reputable dealer named Gary Winterflood. Moore did not dispute, nor did he affirm, the conversation attested to by Montrose about a possible musical collaboration between the two. Montrose has some time to file an appeal from the judgment. Will he? IOt all depends on how justified the court might have been in striking his declaration, because unless the court of appeal considers the evidence supplied by his declaration, he has little chance of overturning the trial court's decision. That's the latest. And maybe the last, unless Montrose wants to proceed in the UK.

11-06-09, 06:15 PM	#2
JRW8214@AOL.COM Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,119	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered There's how our wonderful system works for ya(Sarcasm)

11-06-09, 08:40 PM	#3
BobV Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Glen Head, New York Posts: 392	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Nobody won, nobody lost. This particular case is dismissed on jurisdictional grounds - there was never any decision on the merits and there's plenty of recourse for new lawsuits in other jurisdictions. Montrose just can't do it on his own home turf, that's all. __________________ “The day you see a cowboy on a horse playing a piece of railroad track…” -Mrs. Polfuss "Why don't you just make 10 louder, and make 10 be the top number, and make that a little louder?"

11-06-09, 10:13 PM	#4
lpnv59 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NH/MA Bordertown USA Posts: 8,602	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Ronnie don't need that worn out shitbox anyway. RM would sound better than GM, playing a boat anchor, sandwich body Norlin, thru a Pignose with almost dead batteries, than Moore could ever sound when playing Stripe thru EC's original Bluesbreaker Combo. Just listen to those first 2 Montrose albums. To my tinnitus addled ears, Paper Money is way better than any Parmesean Walkway 2 Heaven POS. __________________ If bongs are outlawed, only outlaws will have bongs.

11-06-09, 10:24 PM	#5
CocoTone Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Baltimore Ontario Posts: 627	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered CT. __________________ http://www.thefabuloustonemasters.com/TM/default.aspx http://www.myspace.com/thefabuloustonemasters

11-07-09, 06:04 AM	#12
TomGuitar All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 2,974	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered I love it when you've been drinking Billy. __________________ Please visit The Golden Era of Gibson Thinlines.

11-07-09, 06:32 AM	#14
sgtJoe Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Locust Grove, GA Posts: 1,520	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered I spoke to Montrose's attorney, there are a few more things he can do. __________________ There are only two kinds of people in this world, ignorant and intelligent, which one are you.

11-07-09, 06:44 AM	#15
kerryboy Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK, Midlands Posts: 656	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered I don't profess to understanding legal judgments, but is this one about the allegedly stolen guitar. If so, does this ruling mean that Moore keeps it and Montrose has no claim on it.

11-07-09, 07:08 AM	#16
DONLP In the Zone/Backstage Pass Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 437	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Not surprised at the outcome. __________________ The home for wayward old wood

11-07-09, 07:38 AM	#18
Dire Wolf Formerly alex57 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 1,579	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Damn it, we'll take this to the Supreme Court if we have to! __________________ "A fellow guitar player and I went to hear Tal and this guitar player said to me,"No wonder he can play so good, look at those long skinny fingers !" Well, I thought for a few moments and I said, "No, that's not right... Segovia had fat fingers and Django could only use two on his left hand." I said, "That kind of playing doesn't come from the fingers, that kind of playing comes from the heart and soul." -Johnny Smith, Guitarist Last edited by Dire Wolf : 11-07-09 at 12:24 PM.

11-07-09, 08:10 AM	#20
frank3si Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 208	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Though I was pretty much obsessed with the first two Montrose albums and interviewed Ronnie for a Vintage Guitar cover feature a few years ago, I also really like Moore's playing as well. The whole thing's a shame... __________________ Regards, Frank Visit my rock and racing writing at: http://home.comcast.net/~loudfast "I want to hear and see everything..." -- Jimi Hendrix

11-07-09, 02:06 PM	#23
CocoTone Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Baltimore Ontario Posts: 627	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered This whole thing stinks. If Moore bought the guitar from a reputable dealer, then surely the lineage of the guitar was known then. He knew then, he knows, the whole guitar world knows now, who the rightful owner is. CT. __________________ http://www.thefabuloustonemasters.com/TM/default.aspx http://www.myspace.com/thefabuloustonemasters

11-07-09, 05:59 PM	#24
m_rambler Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 551	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered They are both hacks. They should take that guitar off Gary, give him and Ronnie an epiphone each and give the burst to Mick Taylor.

11-07-09, 06:12 PM	#26
Rude Dog Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Monterey Posts: 163	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Mr. Swanston, When ya gonna give me that ugly red LP you got layin' around? __________________ AKA The Tuna Tamer

11-07-09, 11:00 PM	#30
Wilko All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 14,626	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered If that guitar is the duck that it quacks like, Moore is a fucking chicken shit asshole. He sure looks afraid to visit CA. Fuck that guy. His red leather Michael Jackson is reason enough.

11-08-09, 02:03 AM	#36
Humbuck Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nationwide Posts: 3,002	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered I just wanna see Ronnie get his 'burst back! Let's start a web petition.

11-08-09, 03:27 AM	#37
j45 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5,224	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered This is some funny $h*t....

11-08-09, 09:06 AM	#39
sunburst1 In the Zone/Backstage Pass Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,396	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered Dose this mean an end is in sight to the hero worship threads in the vintage section? __________________ "I got 11 mac11's... 38, 38's... 9, 9's... 10 mac10's the shit don't end......." "Only once the drugs are gone did i feel like dying, i feel like dying......" "I got so much shit you have a bag, if you're a snacker" "Talk about the feds , turn my scale on took a look at the work & say what's up......"

11-08-09, 09:11 AM	#40
sgtJoe Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Locust Grove, GA Posts: 1,520	Re: Montrose v Moore - Judgment has Entered I doubt that will ever come to an end. __________________ There are only two kinds of people in this world, ignorant and intelligent, which one are you.