The definitive account of why some 59s are "darkburst"

Tom Wittrock · Sep 18, 2014

pinefd said:
Case in point, my '59. Under the pickguard, R/T ring and pickup rings, the cherry color is a very deep, blood red color...but the guitar has faded to a green burst. What else would explain the fade to a green burst versus more of a teaburst or honeyburst? Here's my '59...notice how dark the color is right where the screw hole is...and please note that in person the color of the guitar is quite a bit more green than the photo shows:

Thoughts?

Frank

Doesn't look green to me.

I've seen a darkburst that faded to a brownish edge color.

Hydrogen · Sep 18, 2014

Kind of like Duane's in more recent times?

sunburst1 · Sep 18, 2014

TW59 said:
Doesn't look green to me.

I've seen a darkburst that faded to a brownish edge color.

Don't chime in too much , but having owned that one, it has a very subtle green 'burst thang going on here and there , FWIW. :jim

Great guitar , never get sick of seeing that beauty Frank. :hippy :hank

mistersnappy · Sep 18, 2014

Alls I know is I'm glad they exist!

Dishimyuh · Sep 18, 2014

ATC said:
I always thought Duane's Dark Burst was an early sixty. Since the serial number was lost does anyone have any thoughts other than pot codes on how to date it?

I have a friend who was in Chris Geppert's band and was there when the guitar was broken. He told me that it was a '59. Now I know that it's purely anecdotal, but it's the best that I can do.

pinefd · Sep 18, 2014

TW59 said:
Doesn't look green to me.

I've seen a darkburst that faded to a brownish edge color.

Tom, as I mentioned, I find the color of this one very difficult to actually capture in a photo. It's quite a bit more greenish in person than it appears in the above photo. The amber seems to want to dominate. And as with many digital photos, the camera wants to add a little more red than is actually there, resulting in more of a brownish tint, rather than green.

Frank

Tom Wittrock · Sep 18, 2014

pinefd said:
Tom, as I mentioned, I find the color of this one very difficult to actually capture in a photo. It's quite a bit more greenish in person than it appears in the above photo. The amber seems to want to dominate. And as with many digital photos, the camera wants to add a little more red than is actually there, resulting in more of a brownish tint, rather than green.

Frank

I think Sandy has a similar tint. Dave Paetow took photos one time that showed that coloration in Sandy.
It may be that my eyes don't see these shades as "green". I have never seen green in an old Strat pickguard either.

Ed A · Sep 18, 2014

pinefd said:
Tom, as I mentioned, I find the color of this one very difficult to actually capture in a photo. It's quite a bit more greenish in person than it appears in the above photo. The amber seems to want to dominate. And as with many digital photos, the camera wants to add a little more red than is actually there, resulting in more of a brownish tint, rather than green.

Frank

The various shades of green that are sometimes left on a faded burst are due to the amount of blue that was in the original cherry... cherry coloring is not made of just red... red, yellow and yes some blue is mixed in to make a deeper cherrry.... when all the red fades a hint of that blue is left which when mixed with yellow gives the greenish tint...

Franks beautiful '59 confirms in my mind that some guitars were painted a very deep cherry almost burgundy creating a darkburst and others did have black or dark brown added to the coloring. I say that because Franks red although very deep up by the screw hole has completely faded away yet a burst like Joe Perrys has had all the red fade but there is still plenty of dark left which in my opinion is black or deep brown added to the mix which doesnt fade like red does.

zorglub! · Sep 19, 2014

Quick question: is 'greening' something that happens only in '50s / '60s finishes? Or may it happen in any more recent finish as well?

TM1 · Sep 19, 2014

Hydrogen said:
Kind of like Duane's in more recent times?

I remember seeing this guitar about 3 months after Duane got it and it was a dark Burgundy around the edges. No brown at all..

Tonefiend · Sep 24, 2014

My guess from my perspective is they could have done it because of a flaw in the binding. Perhaps a darker glue line from the binding not gluing down properly. Or perhaps while scraping the binding flush you get some tear out. That would be easier to fill than sand out. The other thing is when scraping the paint off the binding you go into the wood a bit. It would be an easier fix in a production setting to send it back for some color that would hide it.

Black58 · Oct 20, 2014

pinefd said:
Tom, as I mentioned, I find the color of this one very difficult to actually capture in a photo. It's quite a bit more greenish in person than it appears in the above photo. The amber seems to want to dominate. And as with many digital photos, the camera wants to add a little more red than is actually there, resulting in more of a brownish tint, rather than green.

Frank

Yep. I remember it well, from the Philly Show, in 2011.
Definately more greenish in person.

... Killer fiddle! :yah

:salude

TM1 · Nov 11, 2014

Hey Al, thanks for the great info on the darkbursts. any idea what time era ol' Moe did these finishes? My recollection is that most of the darker finishes on LP's is `59. Be nice to know where the majority of the were finished.
Thanks!

Bill Hicklin · Nov 11, 2014

FWIW, there was a long Gibson tradition, going back to well before the war, of using dark sunbursts to cover cosmetic blemishes in the wood. If you look at an old catalog, you'll see that the "N" (natural) version of a model was priced higher (five to ten bucks) than its tobaccoburst sibling (SJN vs SJ, etc). Even though it was an additional step in the manufacturing process to have Moe shoot it. Why? Because "N" versions had to get their best wood.

-------------
Incidentally, rough lumber from sawmills is always sold by the quarter-inch thickness, just how thick they saw the logs. Gibson had a "rough room" where the raw planks were cut, planed and thicknessed into body blanks. As for 5/4 maple-- Gibson had *tons* of the stuff, for archtop backs. The Les Paul was a way to use up pieces that were too small for an L-5 or Super 400. Then in 1957 when they bought out Epiphone they acquired all of Epi's lumber stock- and remember, Epiphone was a major maker of string basses, which use huge pieces of maple.

JIMI55LP · Nov 11, 2014

Very interesting story and take goodness someone had the foresight to ask about this while these guys were still there! Great story that makes perfect sense.

Slashburst · Nov 11, 2014

Is the most known dark/tobacco burst 9 0663? I can't recall others now...

JJ Blair · Nov 12, 2014

663. The neighbor of the beast!

(well, the across the street neighbor, at least)

Black58 · Nov 22, 2014

Slashburst said:
Is the most known dark/tobacco burst 9 0663? I can't recall others now...

With Perry having it, and then Slash having it for a while, bringing it into a new generation, I'd say it's popular; Certainly well-played! .. However, I would put Brother Duane's at the top of the list, as far as, most known. Between the guitar player community and the public photos, if'n he ain't playin' the SG, THAT is the guitar he's playin'. :ganz

chuckNC · Nov 23, 2014

Black58 said:
I would put Brother Duane's at the top of the list, as far as, most known. Between the guitar player community and the public photos, if'n he ain't playin' the SG, THAT is the guitar he's playin'. :ganz

Iconic, yet ironic....the Darkburst is not the guitar people hear on most of the Duane-era ABB recordings. The SG either (at least Duane playing it). After the Live At The Filmore record hit big, there was a sudden surge of interest in this "new" band -- and lots of photographers started snapping pics about the same the time Duane got his prize Lester. Around that same time Duane started using the SG so he didn't have to re-tune after doing the slide numbers. Lots of photos today document his use of those two guitars. Of course, Mr Allman sounded great no matter what he was playing, so it's all good.:hank

........And...I have to admit that Duane's Darkburst is probably my favoritest LP in the whole wide world. :salude

Black58 · Nov 23, 2014

chuckNC said:
Iconic, yet ironic....the Darkburst is not the guitar people hear on most of the Duane-era ABB recordings. The SG either (at least Duane playing it). After the Live At The Filmore record hit big, there was a sudden surge of interest in this "new" band -- and lots of photographers started snapping pics about the same the time Duane got his prize Lester. Around that same time Duane started using the SG so he didn't have to re-tune after doing the slide numbers. Lots of photos today document his use of those two guitars. Of course, Mr Allman sounded great no matter what he was playing, so it's all good.:hank

........And...I have to admit that Duane's Darkburst is probably my favoritest LP in the whole wide world. :salude

Thanx Chuck, you finished my thoughts. :salude

.. btw, Duane also played slide in standard tuning, so there really weren't any "slide numbers". :ganz

:jim

The definitive account of why some 59s are "darkburst"

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner

New member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner

Well-known member

Burst Detective!

Well-known member

Fiendish One

New member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

New member

New member