Cherry 1959 ES-345s

This is a really special guitar that you have seen before. It is the one that was shown by red59dot just before he left. It is now owned by fellow LPF member Rich R. Thanks to Rich for letting me add it to the thinline site and thanks to Charlie for the photos.



More pictures of this very rare, early ES-345 here.

So, now there are three Cherry59 345s... anybody got a fourth?

Charlie Daughtry's A31022.




An anonymous owners A31412.



Pretty cool stuff, eh?

TomGuitar said:

Pretty cool stuff, eh?

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Affirmative.

Quick question about this finish. Rarity aside, is the cherry finish used on ES-3x5s specifically from 1959 unique or somehow different from the cherry used in '60, '61, '62, etc.? I've read recent comments from at least two Forum members about how this color is quite complex and unspeakably gorgeous in person. So, is it something specific to 1959, and if so, exactly what changed in 1960 and beyond?
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I really can't say for sure, but I can speculate. My guess is that it is slightly different at least into early 60. Maybe something similar to the red dye issue they faced with LPs. These 59s and many early 355s fade to something I'll call orange, but it isn't really orange. That's just the only way I know to describe it. It's a really wonderful color. I once had an early 60 355 that was that color. My guess is that at some point they changed dyes because later ones never quite achieve that same color. They still fade, but not the same.

TomGuitar said:

I really can't say for sure, but I can speculate. My guess is that it is slightly different at least into early 60. Maybe something similar to the red dye issue they faced with LPs. These 59s and many early 355s fade to something I'll call orange, but it isn't really orange. That's just the only way I know to describe it. It's a really wonderful color. I once had an early 60 355 that was that color. My guess is that at some point they changed dyes because later ones never quite achieve that same color. They still fade, but not the same.

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To me it looks like they fade the same way the back and the necks of 58-60 LP's, especially the neck areas of those guitars.

I used to own one of the rare 1960 cherry red LP customs and it had the same "lighter" red finish like these 345´s.
I was told that these early cherry guitars had the actual wood stained red and then just clearcoated.

I did get to see that guitar at the recent Philly show. It really is a great guitar
and extreamly rare. Thanks for showing those photos again, Tom.:wow

And Congrats to Rich R on a GREAT purchase.:salude :salude

Very nice, gentlemen!

TomGuitar said:

This is a really special guitar that you have seen before. It is the one that was shown by red59dot just before he left.

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Huh? Where did he go?

Tuco said:

Huh? Where did he go?

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Long story short: somewhere during the last three-or-so weeks, he started a thread about the uppermost red 1959 ES-345 depicted above. At that point, he owned it. Anyway, somewhere during the course of that thread, it came to light that the guitar was for sale, and, as a result, various "pump and dump" accusations were subsequently leveled against him. He didn't appreciate those accusations, and indicated shortly thereafter that he wasn't interested in participating in the Les Paul Forum anymore. Which is unfortunate, because Charlie is a cool guy. I actually bought my first ES-345 from him (a red one, by coincidence) back in 2006.

Getting back to the topmost guitar under discussion in *this* thread, though — I have to say, that particular one looks so nice, that it is almost causing me to reconsider my long-held opinion that Gibson's "standard" (as opposed to Argentine Grey) sunburst is the coolest color for Mickey Mouse–ear ES-3x5's. I especially like how the black knobs and black varitone ring look with this specific variant of cherry finish. Otherwise, my favorite 1959 ES-345 color combination is sunburst with gold Varitone ring, which as far as I can tell only existed for a few months toward the end of 1959 (beginning, presumably, somewhere in the "A-31xxx" range of serial numbers). YMMV.
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vintage58 said:

Otherwise, my favorite 1959 ES-345 color combination is sunburst with gold Varitone ring, which as far as I can tell only existed for a few months toward the end of 1959 (beginning, presumably, somewhere in the "A-31xxx" range of serial numbers). YMMV.

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?? :hmm The gold ring began in the mid 31xxx range but it didn't stop after a few months. Everything after had the gold ring.

TomGuitar said:

?? :hmm The gold ring began in the mid 31xxx range but it didn't stop after a few months. Everything after had the gold ring.

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Yes, that's correct. And while we're at it, the earth is also round. If you re-read my post, I specifically said, "my favorite 1959 ES-345 color combination." And by that, I accordingly meant for the statement to be limited to 1959. My point being, that gold-ring 1959's could possibly be rarer than black-ring 1959's (at least if going by the number of months within the year that each variant appears to have been available). My own guess/estimate is that the gold ring first appeared around August 1959, but I suppose that the most precise method of determining an actual debut date would be to compare known, extant 345's with their corresponding entries in the ledger book.

Of course, taken as an entire model of guitar (i.e., irrespective of production year), gold-ring 345's are obviously much more abundant, since — as you correctly pointed out — the gold ring has been used on all 345's since 1959. Either way, the gold ring is my own personal favorite ring color. Again, YMMV (or should I say, YMDV? ).
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TomGuitar said:

?? :hmm The gold ring began in the mid 31xxx range

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If the ring on CD's above-depicted 345 is indeed known to be original to the guitar, then I think the location of where the gold ring began would be more accurately described as being in the "early" 31xxx range, as opposed to the "mid."
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vintage58 said:

If you re-read my post, I specifically said, "my favorite 1959 ES-345 color combination."

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Yep, missed the qualifier. :doh

vintage58 said:

If the ring on CD's above-depicted 345 is indeed known to be original to the guitar, then I think the location of where the gold ring began would be more accurately described as being in the "early" 31xxx range, as opposed to the "mid."

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Another interesting thing is that the earliest gold rings are on the cherry guitars. On the sunbursts they start showing up at A31425, at least on the examples on the site. Not sure the sample set on my site is large enough (blatant plea for more examples to all who have them) to make anything of it, but it is interesting.

Wow, that is interesting to know — that the gold rings start showing up on sunbursts in the A-314xx range. Quite honestly, the sunbursts are the only ones of these guitars that have ever interested me (or, at least, that I've been sufficiently driven to want to own). Again, not really the Argentine Grey sunburst, I mainly like the "regular" late-1950s sunburst. Anyway, I think it's interesting because I've seen a lot more black-ring sunburst 1959 ES-345's than gold-ring ones. I've seen plenty of gold-ring sunburst '60s, etc., but the gold-ring sunburst '59s seem to be a fairly small subset of guitars when viewed against All 345s Ever Made. Anyway, those are the ones that I view as being the most "quintessential-looking" for this model. Interestingly, a couple of months ago I was using a Mac and there was an icon on the computer's dock for a recording application (I think it was Garage Band), and the icon was a sunburst, long-guard 345. I couldn't believe the level of detail in this tiny icon. When it first visually registered with me, I was like, "Oh, that's cool, they used a 335 as the icon for this program." But then I was like, Wait, that's a 3-FORTY-5! And then I saw the long guard. So now I was really shocked, I was basically thinking, What are the odds? I mean, this is definitely one of my favorite guitars of all time. So I checked to see if the icon had a gold or black Varitone ring (and now we're talking single pixels [laughs]). Anyway, whoever designed the icon put a gold Varitone ring on it. So there! (Again, [laughs].)

Anyway, I think another (and also cool, but infrequently discussed) point that has come up tangentially in this thread, is the idea of ES-3x5 guitars specifically from 1959, occasionally having slightly different visual characteristics than nearly identical examples from a year or two or three later. I bring this up, because I think an analogous statement could be made about sunburst shapes (i.e., "analogous" to what was discussed above about the 1959 cherry ES-3x5 finish). What I'm saying is, I don't know if different employees were in the spray booth in 1960, 1961, 1962, etc., but to my own eye, each year of the "regular" sunburst on the Mickey Mouse–ear guitars has its own look. And obviously there are variations within each year's look, but for example, I've seen more than one really "narrow" sunburst from 1960. And then by 1963 you don't really see the "corners" in the sunburst around the upper bout, I think by then the sunburst got very slightly more "teardrop"-shaped. Anyway, my point in all this is that as with the cherry finish, I generally most like the way ES-3x5 sunburst looked specifically in 1959, for me it is not so much a "color" thing as much as it is a "shape" thing.... and the sunbursting differences between one of those four years and another, although subtle, I do think are actually noticeable.
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Tuco said:

Huh? Where did he go?

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vintage58 said:

Long story short: somewhere during the last three-or-so weeks, he started a thread about the uppermost red 1959 ES-345 depicted above. At that point, he owned it. Anyway, somewhere during the course of that thread, it came to light that the guitar was for sale, and, as a result, various "pump and dump" accusations were subsequently leveled against him. He didn't appreciate those accusations, and indicated shortly thereafter that he wasn't interested in participating in the Les Paul Forum anymore. Which is unfortunate, because Charlie is a cool guy. I actually bought my first ES-345 from him (a red one, by coincidence) back in 2006.

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Well, this is a damned shame. The forum needs to keep its knowledgeable people, not chase them away. I hope that he reconsiders.

And thanks for the update.

Tuco said:

Well, this is a damned shame. The forum needs to keep its knowledgeable people, not chase them away. I hope that he reconsiders.

And thanks for the update.

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Great guitar , BTY-
Its lowdown dirty shame ~ the forum mods yanked the thread,
Who is next, TomGuitar ? Red59 never mentioned the sale on e-Bay and RichR caught the shi**Storm.

So, the rest of us are minus these great Vintage resourses,
There is , in my mind, a lousy have and will never have atiTude.
regarding these vintage pieces.
Does TW 59, Ganz and Mike S get emails about purchasing ?
I bet they do. They don't talk about it either.


This section of the forum is for Vintage Other Gibson guitars.
Please correct me ,
:headbange

vintage58 said:

...a couple of months ago I was using a Mac and there was an icon on the computer's dock for a recording application (I think it was Garage Band), and the icon was a sunburst, long-guard 345.

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Here's your Garage Band icon. Now if that ring were only black...:couch



Did you notice they screwed up the inlays?

vintage58 said:

...I generally most like the way ES-3x5 sunburst looked specifically in 1959, for me it is not so much a "color" thing as much as it is a "shape" thing....

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I agree completely. The paint jobs in 59 are subtly different than the others. I prefer them. But in fairness, I know several guys who really favor the teardrop center where the yellow doesn't extend into the horns. To each their own.

Got another one!.... Finish is more watermelon then it appears here...I shot the pic w/my phone. Better pics to come soon. Serial number A310xx. I owned A31412 for years; so this is my 2nd red '59 ES-345.
A310xx.

Just beautiful--congrats!

Heavens, you've reignited my GAS.

Oof - beautiful! That 345 through the Twin must be a mighty, mighty sound.