'08 Standards superceded?

guitarworld · Apr 2, 2012

Finally sold my '08 Standard. I was real lucky as I would have had a job selling it with this 2012 model coming out. I have lost all confidence in what Gibson produces. They keep changing this and that, and in the process undermining what previously came before. I bought the LP because of it's history and iconic status. They don't seem to be able to make up their minds what to produce. I am looking at buying a 335 or maybe switching to PRS altogether. At least their range is stable and you know what you are getting. The 08 standard had a great sound (I used it pro everyday and it delivered) but the neutrik socket and chambering were negatives, which Gibson have now decided needed improving again, by reverting back to weight relieved and jack sockets. I feel they are losing their way big time, and I feel for purchasers of the '08 standard as certain aspects of this guitars design will now look even more stupid, in comparison to the new 2012 model. These '08 guitars may well become the social lepers of the Gibson range, Gibson are clearly taking the P**. They should have produced this guitar in 2008, not 4 years later. Very disappointed!!:yawn :hmm :hmm

Ryan Givhan · Apr 2, 2012

i would rather have and 08 standard than a new one. but glad you are happy with your decision.

stock_hippie · Apr 2, 2012

i dont go too much what they play like ...i like the looks o the LP

StSpider · Apr 2, 2012

guitarworld said:
The 08 standard had a great sound (I used it pro everyday and it delivered) but the neutrik socket and chambering were negatives, which Gibson have now decided needed improving again, by reverting back to weight relieved and jack sockets.

And why would they be? Neutrik sockets are very solid and I really can't see whan there would be a problem with them, and chambering, many people love it, including Billy Gibbons, who knows a thing or two about guitars, and you seemed to appreciate it as well since the guitar "had a great sound", which leaves me baffled as to where was the "negative" with the chambering.

Lastly, Gibson did not revert. There have always been Traditionals in production, with weight relief holes and standard jack sockets.

guitarworld · Apr 2, 2012

StSpider said:
And why would they be? Neutrik sockets are very solid and I really can't see whan there would be a problem with them, and chambering, many people love it, including Billy Gibbons, who knows a thing or two about guitars, and you seemed to appreciate it as well since the guitar "had a great sound", which leaves me baffled as to where was the "negative" with the chambering.

Lastly, Gibson did not revert. There have always been Traditionals in production, with weight relief holes and standard jack sockets.

Neutrik sockets are not and have never been required on an LP. Most people wrap their cable behind their guitar strap. The red button isn't in keeping with the overall look of an LP, it looks "alien". The circuit board idea came from nowhere, and is also "Alien" to an LP IMHO. Why Gibson did this I don't know, but they must have fitted it for a reason. Maybe there was alot of LP players complaining of problems with the pots/wiring etc? I can't see it being a cheaper option. The chambering on these guitars is quite different to that on an LP Billy Gibbons may own, they have removed large amounts of wood from these 08's. Yes the '08 I owned had a great sound but not as good as a solid or Weight relieved LP. Luckily, I don't hold notes for too long, so long sustain was never an issue for me. If the circuit board/Chambering and Neutrik jack were such great ideas, adding sound quality to the guitar, why are Gibson now producing another Guitar called a STANDARD, with none of these refinements. Theses new guitars are basically Traditionals with AAA tops, re-badged as STANDARDS. Why didn't they produce this 2012 model in 2008? Because they made a mistake IMHO. As a result there was a lot of negative publicity associated with the '08's from the day they were released, and the reputation of the '08's was tarnished forever. Let's see what happens with this new 2012 incarnation, I feel it will fair alot better than the old '08. I am looking from the outside in and I think Gibson have realised the mistakes they made with the 2008 Standard and have decided to protect their future profits, by reverting back with the 2012 Standard. Think of another thing, how many Traditional owners disliked the name Traditional on their guitars? Quite a few I would have thought as I know of three people who have traditionals and they have all changed the truss rod cover for a plain one.

zombiwoof · Apr 3, 2012

guitarworld said:
Neutrik sockets are not and have never been required on an LP. Most people wrap their cable behind their guitar strap. The red button isn't in keeping with the overall look of an LP, it looks "alien". The circuit board idea came from nowhere, and is also "Alien" to an LP IMHO. Why Gibson did this I don't know, but they must have fitted it for a reason. Maybe there was alot of LP players complaining of problems with the pots/wiring etc? I can't see it being a cheaper option. The chambering on these guitars is quite different to that on an LP Billy Gibbons may own, they have removed large amounts of wood from these 08's. Yes the '08 I owned had a great sound but not as good as a solid or Weight relieved LP. Luckily, I don't hold notes for too long, so long sustain was never an issue for me. If the circuit board/Chambering and Neutrik jack were such great ideas, adding sound quality to the guitar, why are Gibson now producing another Guitar called a STANDARD, with none of these refinements. Theses new guitars are basically Traditionals with AAA tops, re-badged as STANDARDS. Why didn't they produce this 2012 model in 2008? Because they made a mistake IMHO. As a result there was a lot of negative publicity associated with the '08's from the day they were released, and the reputation of the '08's was tarnished forever. Let's see what happens with this new 2012 incarnation, I feel it will fair alot better than the old '08. I am looking from the outside in and I think Gibson have realised the mistakes they made with the 2008 Standard and have decided to protect their future profits, by reverting back with the 2012 Standard. Think of another thing, how many Traditional owners disliked the name Traditional on their guitars? Quite a few I would have thought as I know of three people who have traditionals and they have all changed the truss rod cover for a plain one.

I'm sure the circuit-board thing was a cost-cutting measure, they have the whole board all ready to pop in and quickly solder into the guitar, which I'm sure takes less time than doing the regular wiring. I don't like the idea of the circuit board myself, as it will certainly make doing pot/wiring changes much more difficult, and you'll have to find pc-mount pots if you want to change them out.

Al

Arnold Layne · Apr 3, 2012

guitarworld said:
Finally sold my '08 Standard. I was real lucky as I would have had a job selling it with this 2012 model coming out. I have lost all confidence in what Gibson produces. They keep changing this and that, and in the process undermining what previously came before. I bought the LP because of it's history and iconic status. They don't seem to be able to make up their minds what to produce. I am looking at buying a 335 or maybe switching to PRS altogether. At least their range is stable and you know what you are getting. The 08 standard had a great sound (I used it pro everyday and it delivered) but the neutrik socket and chambering were negatives, which Gibson have now decided needed improving again, by reverting back to weight relieved and jack sockets. I feel they are losing their way big time, and I feel for purchasers of the '08 standard as certain aspects of this guitars design will now look even more stupid, in comparison to the new 2012 model. These '08 guitars may well become the social lepers of the Gibson range, Gibson are clearly taking the P**. They should have produced this guitar in 2008, not 4 years later. Very disappointed!!:yawn :hmm :hmm

:wah Seems to have done exactly what was expected of it.
Instead of being mad at Gibson for making that guitar I'd be more pissed at the guy who held a loaded gun to ya head and insisted you bought a high end guitar that you hated.

tobacoburst · Apr 3, 2012

The pots were supposed to "plug in" and be easily interchangeable so you could swap values. Thing is I don't recall them ever releasing alternative value pots... I vaguely remember them saying the same thing about he caps too, hence the board. It was supposed to aid customizing. Don't quote me though, I never really had much interest in these, I was too excited that they'd re-released MY old favorite Standard as the Traditional.

zombiwoof · Apr 3, 2012

tobacoburst said:
The pots were supposed to "plug in" and be easily interchangeable so you could swap values. Thing is I don't recall them ever releasing alternative value pots... I vaguely remember them saying the same thing about he caps too, hence the board. It was supposed to aid customizing. Don't quote me though, I never really had much interest in these, I was too excited that they'd re-released MY old favorite Standard as the Traditional.

A pic I saw of the board in one of those guitars showed Bourns "cube" pots, they had a gold colored case. I assume that any of the similar Bourns pots would retrofit the board (like the ones that have blue or black plastic cases), I would think they'd all have the same pin arrangement on them. Are the pots in sockets or something like that on the board, instead of being soldered in?. Just wondering how you change them out.

Al

Elliot Easton · Apr 3, 2012

i have 3 '08's. i just love 'em. great guitars.

StSpider · Apr 3, 2012

guitarworld said:
Neutrik sockets are not and have never been required on an LP. Most people wrap their cable behind their guitar strap. The red button isn't in keeping with the overall look of an LP, it looks "alien". The circuit board idea came from nowhere, and is also "Alien" to an LP IMHO. Why Gibson did this I don't know, but they must have fitted it for a reason. Maybe there was alot of LP players complaining of problems with the pots/wiring etc? I can't see it being a cheaper option. The chambering on these guitars is quite different to that on an LP Billy Gibbons may own, they have removed large amounts of wood from these 08's. Yes the '08 I owned had a great sound but not as good as a solid or Weight relieved LP. Luckily, I don't hold notes for too long, so long sustain was never an issue for me. If the circuit board/Chambering and Neutrik jack were such great ideas, adding sound quality to the guitar, why are Gibson now producing another Guitar called a STANDARD, with none of these refinements. Theses new guitars are basically Traditionals with AAA tops, re-badged as STANDARDS. Why didn't they produce this 2012 model in 2008? Because they made a mistake IMHO. As a result there was a lot of negative publicity associated with the '08's from the day they were released, and the reputation of the '08's was tarnished forever. Let's see what happens with this new 2012 incarnation, I feel it will fair alot better than the old '08. I am looking from the outside in and I think Gibson have realised the mistakes they made with the 2008 Standard and have decided to protect their future profits, by reverting back with the 2012 Standard. Think of another thing, how many Traditional owners disliked the name Traditional on their guitars? Quite a few I would have thought as I know of three people who have traditionals and they have all changed the truss rod cover for a plain one.

It seems to me you're just pissed that they changed the model (information that I don't see anywhere on the Gibson website while the 2008 Standard is still present) and want to complain.

Expecially "chambering sounds good, but not as good as solid or weight relieved". Why didn't you buy a solid or weight relieved Les Paul then?

This whole thread makes no sense to me.

guitarworld · Apr 3, 2012

StSpider said:
It seems to me you're just pissed that they changed the model (information that I don't see anywhere on the Gibson website while the 2008 Standard is still present) and want to complain.

Expecially "chambering sounds good, but not as good as solid or weight relieved". Why didn't you buy a solid or weight relieved Les Paul then?

This whole thread makes no sense to me.

Far from being pissed off, I now have some money to buy another guitar, after selling the '08. I am very pleased as a matter of fact.

I'll have to take some time to decide on my next purchase!!

Elliot Easton · Apr 3, 2012

I believe that you'll live to miss the '08. They're nice and light, sound, look and play great. What's the prob?

D'Mule · Apr 4, 2012

And now apparently they are "limited" in production, should make them more valuable.:headbange

guitarworld · Apr 4, 2012

Found this review of the new 2012 LP Standard

http://www.nevadamusic.co.uk/guitar/electric/gibson-2012-les-paul-standard-lb?utm_source=google&utm_medium=GoogleShopping&utm_campaign=googlebase#description

They say "this is the best Les paul ever produced" in the write up. I seem to remember that very same phrase being used for the '08 Standard. Gibson have cheapened the name of the Standard to such a point, that they have to basically 'cut and paste' the same selected words into there sales literature, seemingly oblivious of their contradictory nature. The only option for me is to spend alot more money and get away from these USA Gibbys altogether, and that's what I'm gonna do, get a 335 and maybe an Historic LP with some pedigree, or something of that ilk!!

guitarworld · Apr 4, 2012

D'Mule said:
And now apparently they are "limited" in production, should make them more valuable.:headbange

Now I wonder why this would be?:hmm :hmm :hmm. Take a look at the spec of the new 2012 model on the link in my last post? You might be surprised!!!!

Ryan Givhan · Apr 4, 2012

did you not know that it was chambered when you bought it? and if we want to get picky, weight relived isnt historically accurate either. nor is chrome hardware, 2 piece bodies or fretboards, the placement of the nobs or anything else on USA gibsons. its all supposed to be about how they play and sound, and from your discription sounds like your 08 was pretty good. ive never had a problem with sustain on a chambered standard.

Scott L · Apr 4, 2012

The mistake was in the naming of the guitar, not the build. Had it been called something else other than the Standard, most of the hub-bub would never had happened.

I wrote this a while back on the other board.... JMHO

I've reached a stage in life where I can have the luxury owning multiple guitars, and I own both a Traditional and an 08 Standard. In world of Les Pauls, from Top to Bottom they are very different guitars - some things are deal breakers to a lot of players, be it mind sets as to what a Les Paul should be / and or practical such as installed hardware. Which is better, neither they are just different.

Should a Les Paul be Heavy or Light ? The most coveted 58-60 bursts were light by today's standards. Big money guitars - the standard by which all LPs are judged against

Gibson uses the lightest woods on the Historics and gets big bucks for them. A light Traditional will still be heavier than 08 Standards. How's your back??

Should a Les Paul be Chambered ?? Well Les Paul had chambered ones built for Mary Ford, and they made a quite living at with them.

Neck Shape - total personal taste - What's your favorite color?? WRONG!

Locking Chrome Tuners vs the Klusions on the Traditional ?? Advantage ?? No disadvantage. Looks?? Ginger or Maryann

Pickups ?? Total taste choice - Neither good or bad, just a like Pizza, NY - Chicago - Thick - Thin - Spicy.... Dam I hungry

Locking input jack - Advantage ??? Solved a problem I did not know i had Nothing negative except to remember to unlock - Doh!

PC Board mounted electronics - Certainly not Traditional, but the quality of the components is there on the 08 Standard and they work well. I believe in future PUPs will come pre-wired with connectors for these boards, and if you don't need them cut them off and soldier the leads in as usual.

Mods and repairs on a PC board is no big deal - the amp guys do this all day long. A $5 solder sucker is all the added equipment needed. In the big picture - pulling the entire electronics out of an 08 Standard is quicker than a Traditional - no un-soldering to be done - and easy to put back to original too.

Should your LP be heavy like a 12 lb Norlan Custom?? Lightweight like a real 59 Burst ? Solid like an Historic?? Weight Relieved like the last 30+ years?? Chambered for lightweight??? I have all the styles, but I don't pick my guitars by style of build, but by sound and feel - is one better than the other - no, but again I don't have to choose which to own.

flimz · Apr 4, 2012

The 2012 is still chambered. Its just a different internal design. Said to be more like "spokes" or "channels", rather than large pockets.
I own a 2007 Classic antique which is chambered and probably one of the lightest LPs Ive ever played/owned and it sounds fantastic. I for one am very interested in the new model!

jabsalt · Apr 4, 2012

Scott L said:
The mistake was in the naming of the guitar, not the build. Had it been called something else other than the Standard, most of the hub-bub would never had happened.

I wrote this a while back on the other board.... JMHO

I've reached a stage in life where I can have the luxury owning multiple guitars, and I own both a Traditional and an 08 Standard. In world of Les Pauls, from Top to Bottom they are very different guitars - some things are deal breakers to a lot of players, be it mind sets as to what a Les Paul should be / and or practical such as installed hardware. Which is better, neither they are just different.

Should a Les Paul be Heavy or Light ? The most coveted 58-60 bursts were light by today's standards. Big money guitars - the standard by which all LPs are judged against

Gibson uses the lightest woods on the Historics and gets big bucks for them. A light Traditional will still be heavier than 08 Standards. How's your back??

Should a Les Paul be Chambered ?? Well Les Paul had chambered ones built for Mary Ford, and they made a quite living at with them.

Neck Shape - total personal taste - What's your favorite color?? WRONG!

Locking Chrome Tuners vs the Klusions on the Traditional ?? Advantage ?? No disadvantage. Looks?? Ginger or Maryann

Pickups ?? Total taste choice - Neither good or bad, just a like Pizza, NY - Chicago - Thick - Thin - Spicy.... Dam I hungry

Locking input jack - Advantage ??? Solved a problem I did not know i had Nothing negative except to remember to unlock - Doh!

PC Board mounted electronics - Certainly not Traditional, but the quality of the components is there on the 08 Standard and they work well. I believe in future PUPs will come pre-wired with connectors for these boards, and if you don't need them cut them off and soldier the leads in as usual.

Mods and repairs on a PC board is no big deal - the amp guys do this all day long. A $5 solder sucker is all the added equipment needed. In the big picture - pulling the entire electronics out of an 08 Standard is quicker than a Traditional - no un-soldering to be done - and easy to put back to original too.

Should your LP be heavy like a 12 lb Norlan Custom?? Lightweight like a real 59 Burst ? Solid like an Historic?? Weight Relieved like the last 30+ years?? Chambered for lightweight??? I have all the styles, but I don't pick my guitars by style of build, but by sound and feel - is one better than the
other - no, but again I don't have to choose which to own.

+1 ditto ditto ditto

'08 Standards superceded?

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