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current production es-335 versions

TK LP

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2002
Messages
54
Food for thought: from what I can see, when looking at pics of late 50's ES-335s, neither the Historic '59 335 or the Memphis 335s are all that accurate. One thing I've noticed is that the f holes look to be lower down on the body on the Historics and the Memphis reissues. On the 50's models the f holes start near the neck end of the bridge pickup while on the modern models it starts closer to the bridge end of the bridge pickup (or more near the middle of the bridge pickup on some). Also, the toggle switch is in line with the stop bar on the old ones and on the new ones it's lower than the stop bar. I think that's because of the lower f holes. Don't get me wrong, I think the modern built 335s (Historic and Memphis) are fine guitars, just not all that accurate to 50's models from what I've noticed. YMMV.


Until you mentioned it, I hadn't really looked at this, but I'm noticing the same thing in these more current production guitars. The F holes and toggle switch are definately different. These are both 333's, made, I assume, in the Memphis plant. One is an 03, and the other an 04. I don't know about historic accuracy, but this may just be an anomaly in production, regardless of where or when they are built.

002.jpg
 
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Troels

Guest
Well, since this thread is showing signs of dying out, I thought I'd write Gibson and ask them to clarify the difference between current Memphis and Nashville ES 335s. Here's the reply I got this evening.

From: Customer.Relations@gibson.com
Subject: RE: ES 335 Production Facts
Date: January 1, 2009 8:58:23 PM EST
To:


The ES-335 Reissue made in Memphis is not historically accurate, it does have the current specs. They are meant to simply give the flavor of an ES-335 made in the late 50’s. The Memphis plant is a division of the Custom Shop but it is a separate plant.

The historic ES-335’s (i.e. 59 ES-335 and 63 ES-335) are made in the Custom Shop in Nashville. These two guitars are historically accurate to their designated years. These guitars come with a certificate of authenticity, custom care kit and custom shop case.

Regards,
Roger Ball
Gibson customer service


So there you have it. The differences between the two guitars are very clearly stated. On the marketing of 335s, however, it would seem Gibson wants to have its cake and eat it, too. Memphis is a "division of the Custom Shop," but Gibson considers it "a separate plant." This seems calculated to hit multiple niches in the marketplace with 335s that any owner can claim some link to the Custom Shop.

I have sent Mr. Ball a followup question about the certificates I understand are being shipped with Memphis guitars and will post whatever I hear back.

angus :nocd

"So there you have it...". Hmmm...unfortunately not!

I seems like you haven't read all the posts before answering - right? But I think you should go back and do so because your activities with Gibson Customer Service is plain waste of my time.

Get it: Both Memphis and Nasville are Custom Shops and both make Custom Shop guitars. Guitars from both places come with Custom case, Certificate of Authenticity and Gold Custom Shop Warranty.

Read Bhodies post #93 if it's too much to read them all.

And don't expect Gibson Customer Service to know much about Gibson and Gibson guitars.

I know I promissed not to post again here in this thread. But it seems like anybody just open the last post and deliver their contribution - no matter the quality - and it needed a comment.
 
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angus99

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
123
I [sic] seems like you haven't read all the posts before answering - right? But I think you should go back and do so because your activities with Gibson Customer Service is plain waste of my time.

Wrong--again. I've read them all, including your diatribes. Please, do us all a favor and stop letting us waste your time.

Read Bhodies post #93 if it's too much to read them all.

Until this thread, I've been willing to believe that your rude and highly directive posts were just an unfortunate by-product of English as perhaps a second or third language. It's kind of sad to realize that it's simple, garden-variety arrogance.

As for Bhodie's informative post, as long as there is no law against checking with more than one source at Gibson, what's the problem? Possibly that you would be exposed to an answer you don't agree with? The fact that Gibson is not consistent with how it refers to the Memphis plant is valid information and, I believe, illuminates this entire issue. Calling Memphis a "division of the Custom Shop" allows them to produce "Custom Shop" guitars at a lower price point. Why else would Gibson consider Memphis guitars to be models that "give the flavor of an ES335 made in the late 50s"? Are Historics worth the premium? Obviously, some people think so. Some don't.

Get it: Both Memphis and Nasville are Custom Shops and both make Custom Shop guitars. Guitars from both places come with Custom case, Certificate of Authenticity and Gold Custom Shop Warranty.

BMW and Jeep both come in luxury models--if you believe their marketing. I'll trade you my son's Jeep Patriot for an '09 550i--straight up. They're both luxury models down to their certificates of authenticity, right? Don't pass this deal up!

And don't expect Gibson Customer Service to know much about Gibson and Gibson guitars.

Especially if they conflict with our preconceptions.

angus
 

MK.II

Active member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Messages
1,106
Until you mentioned it, I hadn't really looked at this, but I'm noticing the same thing in these more current production guitars. The F holes and toggle switch are definately different. These are both 333's, made, I assume, in the Memphis plant. One is an 03, and the other an 04. I don't know about historic accuracy, but this may just be an anomaly in production, regardless of where or when they are built.

002.jpg


Yes, I can see in your pic where, on the guitar on the right, the wide part of the control side f hole is closer to the pic guard than it is on the guitar on the left. The guitar on the right also has the toggle switch in line with the stop bar and the other one doesn't. Could just be a build anomaly, like you said.

Yesterday I was at my favorite music store and they had two '08 "Fat Neck" 335s, which is what I have and it's also an '08. The two at the store are different from each other in regards to f hole and toggle switch placement. One had the toggle perfectly in line with the stop bar and the other one had it a little lower. Same with the f holes. Like the differences between the two in the pic you posted. The one that I have is different than the ones I seen at the store in that mine has the toggle switch and f holes farther down the body. My toggle is probably about 3/16" of an inch lower than the one at the store that has the lower toggle switch of the two. Because of that, my toggle is also noticably further from the pickguard. I don't know if this is a "luck of the draw" thing as to where the placement ends up being or what, but it seems that a lot of the new models (Historics included) don't match up with most pics of 50's 335s. YMMV.
 

44deluxe

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Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
114
It is confusing for sure. As for the long guards, they show up on the 58 Reissue, the 59 Historic (both made in Nashville) and the Fatneck which I think is made in Memphis if I am not mistaken.
I have a '59 Historic Reissue from early 2005 that I bought used in 2007 from a guitar shop in Newcastle but it was virtually unplayed.

It didn't come with the certificate but it did have the case candy and Custom Shop case. I was a little concerned at first because it has the shorter pickguard so God knows what the story is there. :wah


When I bought it I traded my almost new dot reissue with the slimmer neck and Grover tuners so I'm confident that this guitar is the real deal (tapered headstock with no serial number, Klusons, Orange label, thinner neck binding).


It just has the wrong pickguard but I don't know that I'm bothered enought to get the longer one.

335c.jpg
 

44deluxe

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Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
114
Here are a few more (blurry) pics...

IMGP4638.jpg


IMGP4640.jpg


IMGP4641.jpg


IMGP4644.jpg


IMGP4648.jpg


She's a very sweet sounding guitar btw, I love the sound of '57 pickups and the big fat neck really is a joy to play.

:foghorn
 
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Troels

Guest
It's a nice one... The PG may have been changed and I think the knobs could have been chaged too to reflectors. The orange label should say Nashville down the bottom...
 

Mark Kane

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Jul 18, 2001
Messages
5,742
Interesting discussion and lots of good points. One thing to consider though about Troels. If you go back and search his posts this guy has done more research on semi-hollows than anyone oughta. I put a lot of stock in what he says regarding these guitars. Just something to consider.
 
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Troels

Guest
Interesting discussion and lots of good points. One thing to consider though about Troels. If you go back and search his posts this guy has done more research on semi-hollows than anyone oughta. I put a lot of stock in what he says regarding these guitars. Just something to consider.

Thank you very much... I've really tried to get some knowledge - but even I don't like to admit it I'm sometimes wrong :) :) There's always something new to learn and I do enjoy researching for info on these guitars.
 

44deluxe

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Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
114
It's a nice one... The PG may have been changed and I think the knobs could have been chaged too to reflectors. The orange label should say Nashville down the bottom...

Thanks Troels...you're correct, it does say "Made in Nashville" on the label. I changed the knobs myself as I prefer that look, I still have the other plain black ones in the case, along with the aged switch tip.

For what it's worth I sort of agree with your points about where the extra money goes between Nashville "Historics" and Memphis "Customs". I just plain fell for this guitar so money was not my PRIME concern, but I do realise that I paid another £800 (around $1200 at the present rate) extra for.....er....thinner binding, a holly veneer, a tapered headstock, no cutaway to the centre block and a great big neck. At the time I bought it, the fat neck model hadn't reached the UK and I knew that this guitar was the one I wanted so I just ponied up the money....but I'm lucky enough to make my living from music so I can claim all instrument expenses back against tax.

Plus I don't have any other vices. :jim
 

44deluxe

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Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
114
Come to think of it though, I do remember that the binding/fretwork was a little shabby on the regular 335. The work on mine is flawless.
 
T

Troels

Guest
It's often said that the most important thing about a guitar is how you like it. Nothing else matters - and I really do think that if it cost £800 more - then buy it. Here in DK we can claim instrument expenses back against taxes as well - so by the end of the day the money doesn't matter (well not that much... anyway).

I like the reflector knoba the most - like you (actually mostly on SGs...).
 
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Troels

Guest
Come to think of it though, I do remember that the binding/fretwork was a little shabby on the regular 335. The work on mine is flawless.

In one of the videos from Memphis a lady is smiling brightly to the camera - a nice warm smile... The problem is that she at the same time is scraping the body binding - without looking :) That may explain why binding/fretworks sometimes are next to superior :) :)

Memphis are now delivering quite nice fret jobs (pleked) btw.

I used to have a (female) dentists that - while mining my teeth with the drill - screened the reception for incoming new patients - without stopping the treatment in my mouth. I founs a new dentist because of that :)
 
T

Troels

Guest
Custom shop? :applaude

You could very well call it that... :) :) :) At least they've got excellent glue :) :)


BTW Dentists have excellent cameras that can be put inside semis for inspection. A great reason to be good friend with your dentist...
 
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sgtJoe

Active member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
2,242
Well, I have a 2006 ES 355 LTD from the Memphis Custom Shop and it's one classy top notch axe. I'm very pleased with it and there's no quesiton it's a keeper.
 

Boogie Bill

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Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
334
If I really want to play a top notch, exquisitely made guitar--then my Korean-made Ibanez Artstar AS-120TR fits the bill. This guitar is as perfectly made as an instrument could be.

But, it certainly doesn't have the mojo of my 2006 Memphis-made, non-Historic Antique Sunburst ES-335. Of note--this guitar has a neck profile that is very asymmetrical. It's feels very weird, but once I get used to it--that guitar can do the job. It sounds great.

I love the flame tops they've added to these guitars--they do look nice, but they're not the tops that I remember on the mid-60's Gibsons I lusted for in my youth. They don't have that damn trapeze tail-piece either, so that's a pretty good trade-off, in my book!

I do think the '59 Historics are worth the extra money, and it's obvious to me that there is a higher level of quality in these guitars. However, the neck doesn't appeal to me, I like the 1960 slim taper.

Back in around 1975, I played in a band with a guy who owned a '61 dot. That guitar was really special, even though he abused the hell out of it. It had a fantastic neck--a wide, 1960 taper, but a little fatter and slightly V'ed. The closest thing I've come across recently that felt like that is my 2007 Guitar Center Darkburst GO Les Paul. It was a great neck, and Chuck's '61 was probably the best 335 I've ever heard. If Gibson would clone that one, I'd be first in line. The new Fat Necks, and the '59 Historics don't compare. Perhaps the '63 Block....

That's MY story. But, after reading all the posts, I have a couple of questions.

One of the best "new" Gibsons I've played in the last few years was a circa-2003 Brown Sunburst ES-345. I've kicked myself many times for not buying that one. And a friend of mine has a beautiful blond ES-175, also about a 2003.

Are the ES-345, ES-355, and Lucille made in Memphis? (BTW, the ES-345 I almost bought had a "Custom Shop" sticker on the back of the neck.)

Where are Gibson's other ES models (ES-175, L-5CES, Citations, Montgomerys, etc.) made?

I assume the '63 Blocks are done in the Nashville Custom Shop, along with the '59 Historics. But what about the signature guitars, like the Larry Carlton?

And is it just me, or is the color of the Memphis-made Cherry ES-335s just WRONG? It's too.....RED!

It's been an interesting discussion. My guess it that if anyone is to blame--it's Gibson. I think they've labelled some things "Custom Shop" to create more cachet for what some people might consider a "regular ol' production model gee-tar". (Heaven forbid that anyone should think that about a GIBSON!!!)

TIA.

Bill
 
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Troels

Guest
I believe we came to the conclusion (after a bit of discussion) that only the "Historics" are made in Nashville. All the rest in the Gibson Memphis Custom Shop...

That said I can see that the 345 and 355 both have Historic (= Nashville) body measurements. So they could be made there too... but I'm not sure of that at all (that said just to prevent WW3)

All signatures including the BB are build in Memphis.

Boogie Bill, your thoughts about Gibson are right.
And - it's VERY interesting that we here have a world wide known factory with thousands of customers paying EXSTREMELY much attention to them and who show a deeply felt interest in how they manufacture their products... and ... they arrogantly don't mind AT ALL. People with that sort of competences who don't take advantage of such a world wide interest should be fired! And not be responable for running a $$$$ company with such impressive historical roots.
 
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Buffaloe

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Jul 15, 2001
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I believe the L5, Montgomery and other very high end hollows come out of Nashvegas. I could be wrong about that, but I don't recall them talking about making those in Memphis the last time I went through the factory.
 
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Troels

Guest
I believe the L5, Montgomery and other very high end hollows come out of Nashvegas. I could be wrong about that, but I don't recall them talking about making those in Memphis the last time I went through the factory.

That's probably right... I'm mostly into ES-330,355, 345 asnd 355 :)
Wonder how many they sell these days of the carved tops...
 
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