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Is it an ES or a Les Paul?

trapland

trapland

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Jun 5, 2008
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322
Here's a couple more photos of my ES-Les Paul. I drove from Minneapolis to LaCrosse, Wi to buy it from Daves guitar (and look at his museum).

So does it belong in the general les paul area here, or the other Gibsons and ES section? Either way, I like it a lot.

I finally got around to weighing some guitars. The ES Les paul weights 5lb 14 oz! It's almost too light.

I also weighed my new Danelectro 12/6 double neck at a very playable 10lbs. There's a thread in the other guitars area with photos.

1e425bf96c13cec5e251eb6779945023_zpsc17a90f2.jpg

3f5f6bb707a098bf0ff42177597a163d_zps8ebbd8b7.jpg

a7c74d7b314bcafc77cedb27571478b8_zps33967b73.jpg
 
Stoj

Stoj

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Oct 6, 2006
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3,514
That sure is a beauty & Dave is always Great to deal with :salude

I'd call it an ELP :rofl
 
Bob Womack

Bob Womack

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Apr 8, 2002
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2,197
Lovely!


Where does it fit on the tone spectrum? Les Paul? ES-335? ES-339?

Bob
 
trapland

trapland

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Jun 5, 2008
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322
I've owned both a 137 and a 339. It's nothing like either. In fact it probably more like a 1959 es-225 I used to own (wah!) than any other archtop. Put humbuckers in an es-225 and it might be there.

I gotta tell you I don't like the pickups much. They are better reversed, but not great. Output is REALLY low, like danelectro lipsticks are hotter, but these are dark and muddy. Jazzers may like them. I prefer bright and lively tone. Mine measure in the low 7 range but they aren't even close to a BB1 also in the low 7s. BB1 and 2 are my favs and I thought they might be similar but they aren't. In fact, they sound like really weak Epiphone pickups. Maybe the pots need an upgrade?

Other than that, it plays like a les paul without the weight. Acoustic feedback is LESS of an issue than it was on my 339, even though the ESLES is more hollow. Microphonics are rally bad though. It loves to be played clean with the guitar volumes on 10. Even moderate overdrive at volume is a problem. I WILL get it whipped into shape though. Pots, caps, bb1 and 2 and it may be my new number 2.
 
Jackyrhode

Jackyrhode

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May 2, 2002
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I've had mine for 2 months now and LOVE it. I did notice the pickups are microphonic. I was playing a dotted 8th delay and heard my own voice coming back to me through the amp.

I know the pickups are unpotted (and they sound amazing). Is this the cause and are they all this way?
 
Wilko

Wilko

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Interesting way to treat the archtop shape around the neck. I wonder why they went with flat... Probably cheaper to build.
 
trapland

trapland

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Jun 5, 2008
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New pictures!

Jackyrhode: my pickups are micro phonic too, the neck more than the bridge. I play a 70s four hole 50 watt Marshall with g12-65s. I run the bright volume to about 7 and get what I need for gain. My R0 with bb1 and 2 only needs abut 6 in the volume. I use an attenuator to knock off about 12db. Microphonics at that gain and volume (loud enough to keep up with a soft drummer) are manageable. But it gets better.....



I've posted before that I thought the pickups were dull and muddy. I tried switching them and then back again. I tried 50s wiring. i tried Memphis wiring ala ES 339. Finally I pulled everything out again and measured. Neck 7.5k, bridge 7.85k and both volume pots were 440k! For the guys that like a mellower clean tone, those pots would be fine, but I like it bright and in your face. I figure tone controls are there for a reason and too bright is NOT a problem but dark and muddy I can't stand. 440k?!? That's like 15% out of spec and I read somewhere that these were supposedly hand picked in the ES-les for brighter neck and mellower bridge.

Anyway, I replaced the volume pots with Gibson historic spec 500k pots. Out of 6 I bought, they all measured high. One at 540 and five at 550k. I left the tone controls alone and kept the orange drops. I put 550k in both volumes and HOLY CRAP! What a difference! More gain, bright and cheerful. I can use the tone controls. Rolling down the volumes stay bright and balanced. Micro phonics are reduced. It sounds amazing clean. It sounds even more amazing at 1973ish Jimmy Page TSRTS gains.

. Sustain is still no where near what a nice Les Paul has, so its maybe the fretwork or more likely the fact that this thing is much more a hollow body archtop like an es225 than a block semi hollow like a 335 or 339. There is almost NO block at all! The block is ONLY under the stop tail and bridge. A little for the strap buttons and a brace under the pickups and fingerboard. Cool. Here's pics.

65afa3e3d6189cbd2075408a6dd403ef_zps6fed2d0c.jpg


d93e674c689fe227de191cf90e287c13_zps2e8b84de.jpg
 
Last edited:
TommyTouch

TommyTouch

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Feb 15, 2006
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1,050
It must be nice to have an ES style guitar with the controls laid out like a Les Paul, because I am so used to the control layout of a Les Paul.
 
trapland

trapland

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Jun 5, 2008
Messages
322
One other note. Although there are plenty of microphonics from the pickups, acoustic howling is all but absent from my EsLes. When I had the 339 with a full centr block, acoustic howling was always right there, sometimes cool, sometimes crass. I would think the EsLes would howl worse since its so much more open. Perhaps the more minimal support strip and much smaller block are well engineered to reduce howl while allowing more acoustic tones?

It ain't a solid body LP and it sounds and behaves very different, but it feels right in my hands and the <6lbs feels right to my back. It's different but its very good. It sits in some of my more high energy material very well.
 
bern1

bern1

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Nov 23, 2004
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1,277
Very cool, I was looking for something like this last year! How long have they been making it and what is the name of the model please?

One other question: is it neck heavy on the strap when standing?

Thanks!
 
Jackyrhode

Jackyrhode

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Joined
May 2, 2002
Messages
640
Re: New pictures!

trapland said:
Jackyrhode: my pickups are micro phonic too, the neck more than the bridge. I play a 70s four hole 50 watt Marshall with g12-65s. I run the bright volume to about 7 and get what I need for gain. My R0 with bb1 and 2 only needs abut 6 in the volume. I use an attenuator to knock off about 12db. Microphonics at that gain and volume (loud enough to keep up with a soft drummer) are manageable. But it gets better.....



I've posted before that I thought the pickups were dull and muddy. I tried switching them and then back again. I tried 50s wiring. i tried Memphis wiring ala ES 339. Finally I pulled everything out again and measured. Neck 7.5k, bridge 7.85k and both volume pots were 440k! For the guys that like a mellower clean tone, those pots would be fine, but I like it bright and in your face. I figure tone controls are there for a reason and too bright is NOT a problem but dark and muddy I can't stand. 440k?!? That's like 15% out of spec and I read somewhere that these were supposedly hand picked in the ES-les for brighter neck and mellower bridge.

Anyway, I replaced the volume pots with Gibson historic spec 500k pots. Out of 6 I bought, they all measured high. One at 540 and five at 550k. I left the tone controls alone and kept the orange drops. I put 550k in both volumes and HOLY CRAP! What a difference! More gain, bright and cheerful. I can use the tone controls. Rolling down the volumes stay bright and balanced. Micro phonics are reduced. It sounds amazing clean. It sounds even more amazing at 1973ish Jimmy Page TSRTS gains.

. Sustain is still no where near what a nice Les Paul has, so its maybe the fretwork or more likely the fact that this thing is much more a hollow body archtop like an es225 than a block semi hollow like a 335 or 339. There is almost NO block at all! The block is ONLY under the stop tail and bridge. A little for the strap buttons and a brace under the pickups and fingerboard. Cool. Here's pics.

65afa3e3d6189cbd2075408a6dd403ef_zps6fed2d0c.jpg


d93e674c689fe227de191cf90e287c13_zps2e8b84de.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info! I find the bridge to be bright enough but the neck a bit muddy. Maybe I'll put a 500k in the neck. I wouldn't want to change these pickups.

I will say the micro phonics don't cause a lot of feedback and the loss of sustain is to be expected. It's not a solid body, after all. I also put a tone rite on it for 72 hours and it opened up the wood quite a bit.

It really works well with amps. I have a fender, a Vox and a Marshall and the ES Les Paul finds the sweet spot in each of them.
 
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