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09 R9 specs are out...should R9 03 Braz prices go up?

RonG

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May 22, 2003
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Now that the R9 09 specs are out and it doesn't include Brazilian should the 03 R9 Brazilian prices go up? Remember supply and demand.

Seems that there are a few people that are disappointed that 09 R9's didn't include Braz.
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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With the limited data and photos available for the '09s, it appears that the '03 BRW guitars are technically more accurate, at least from a materials perspective. From a production numbers perspective, they are very close (500 vs ~600?). We'll see if the masses value a few cosmetic changes over historically accurate wood. This is a good question :jim
 

rbuse

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Mar 15, 2002
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The 09 specs will continue into the future until they are again changed, but it's highly unlikely Gibson will be using Brazilian in the near future. So those numbers will not change. I don't personally care about either, but it would make sense that if you want Brazilian and there are only @ 600 in the world, someone will always be willing to spend more money to acquire one as opposed to a production guitar that Gibson will crank out as long as there is a market.
 
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DANELECTRO

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Feb 24, 2003
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I don't believe that my '03 R7 BRW Goldtop went up in value after that ridiculous 50th anniversary goldtop model was introduced.
 

MRTONEMAN

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Mar 6, 2006
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I have a question/thought.:hmm .. and it may even be a dumb one.:rofl

Braz is not extinct, its just on the CITES-BAN-LIST for now.
The reserves of these trees have been 'building up' for about 20 years now.

There will come a time, sooner than we think that Braz will be removed off the 'Cites-Ban' list.
After that, LEGAL exports would be heavily monitored, from then on foward.

Once Braz is off the 'ban', Gibson would likely cut a deal
like they did regarding certain mahogany recently.
(where they pay more than average, to get first choice).
Let's face it, Braz can go alot further for Gibson, since its only
for fingboards vs say mahogany for full bodies.

Gibson is against using CITES-Banned woods, not Braz in particular.
 

DANELECTRO

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I just read somewhere that the BRW trees harvested for Gibson guitars in the 50s were hundreds of years old. If that's the case, we'll have to wait a while for farm-grown trees.
 

esmin

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Sep 9, 2008
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I think the Braz 03's are closer based on the wood. With all of the updates they've done for the 09's, doesn't it make it closer to a '59? I don't understand why the Braz makes it closer if it still doesn't have all of the appointments of the 09. They've done quite a few changes to the new R9.
 

MRTONEMAN

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I just read somewhere that the BRW trees harvested for Gibson guitars in the 50s were hundreds of years old. If that's the case, we'll have to wait a while for farm-grown trees.


There's always been folklore myth about how old the trees were to build the 50's Les Pauls.
That might not be the case. Even if it was, it still might be possible to harvest younger trees,
since its only for the fingerboards. Even if younger, it can't be any worse than stumpwood Braz on many of the '03's.

EDIT: I was able to find this, regarding the time needed for an adult tree :
(its about mahogany, but should apply to rosewood too)
>>> http://www.agribusinessweek.com/forest-trees-mahogany-long-wait-but-big-returns/ <<<
according to this, it takes 30 years Total,
and we have had 20 years already of a CITES Braz Ban, to grow reserves.
 
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R

R9.

Guest
From a production numbers perspective, they are very close (500 vs ~600?).
Do you mean 500 2009 R9s? 500 is only the number of high gloss R9s coming out in 2009. They're making more VOS later on in the year.
 

J.D.

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Yes, as I understand it, the "official" 50th R9 guitars will be limited to 500 units with additional Historic R9s also being produced for 2009.
 
R

R9.

Guest
I think they're all actually official 50ths. The only thing "special" about these first 500 is that they're either HC or DB and high gloss.

Interestingly enough, a guy at MLP pointed this out...if you have a 2008 R8 and look at the back of the COA, the paper, not the booklet, it says 50th.
 

pinefd

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Jan 22, 2004
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3,060
I've seen some of those. The grain is actually doing circles! What a disgrace.


That must be what they use for these guitars: :lol

Round_Fingerboard.jpg
 

Zoomer

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Feb 1, 2005
Messages
2,357
There's always been folklore myth about how old the trees were to build the 50's Les Pauls.
That might not be case. Even if it was, it still might be possible to harvest younger trees,
since its only for the fingerboards. Even if younger, it can't be any worse than stumpwood Braz on many of the '03's.

EDIT: I was able to find this, regarding the time needed for an adult tree :
(its about mahogany, but should apply to rosewood too)
>>> http://www.agribusinessweek.com/forest-trees-mahogany-long-wait-but-big-returns/ <<<
according to this, it takes 30 years Total,
and we have had 20 years already of a CITES Braz Ban, to grow reserves.

20 year old brazilian is far from the old growth used in the 50's - It is generally considered sapwood at this age and is very light with colors light white to tan color. As the tree gets older the outer growth gets the nice dark brown color which is needed for Gibson fingerboards and much more time for acoustic guitar sizes. As hard as it is to believe the reason brazilian rosewood is so depleted is not because of guitars but most of it went to the perfume industry.

Now that the R9 09 specs are out and it doesn't include Brazilian should the 03 R9 Brazilian prices go up? Remember supply and demand.

Seems that there are a few people that are disappointed that 09 R9's didn't include Braz.

Knowing Gibson in 2013 they will have the 10th anniversary of the 2003 Brazilian Rosewood Les Paul Historic guitars !!! :rofl
 
R

R9.

Guest
Actually, nevermind. I just looked at the COA of my '08 R6 and it too has the 50th anniversary on the back.

COA.jpg
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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Would that be the same for a 2007 VOS R7 goldtop? I guess technically a 2007 Les Paul Jr. singlecut is also a 50th anniversary :hmm
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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8,349
From what I've been told by a few luthiers is that the old growth Brazilian sounds much different and more musical than the stuff that was cut before the CITIES Ban.
 
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