Neck Pickup Magnet Flip

soulbrojcs · Sep 27, 2014

I have been dying to experiment with some Peter Green like tones, and finally yesterday, I had the neck pickup's magnet flipped in my 2000 R9. I used it on my gig last night, and have fallen in love with it all over again!!! the bridge pickup sound alone seems to be the same as before, but the neck pickup alone seems to have changed slightly (for the better, IMHO). but the sound and response of both pickups together... WOW!!! with just the slightest adjustment of either of the volume controls makes huge differences in the sound. until now, I had been using the two pickups together less and less, as the sound really wasn't that inspiring to me. and from what I hear, with the pickups configured out of phase, some don't like the volume drop when both are used together, but I LOVE it. with the bridge pickup up higher than the neck, in the middle position it now gets an almost Strat like sound for rhythm, and with the flick of the switch to the bridge position instant boost for soloing. and with both pickups on full, with the amps natural distortion, it almost gives a slight octave effect to the notes. going straight into the amp, this arrangement is giving me a lot more tonal and dynamic possabilities to play with. it was a little hairy making the adjustments on the spot for the first time, but a LOT of fun. it's like my axe is a new girlfriend, and I am having a blast finding all of the sweet spots that make her moan. ;-) I would love to hear about the tonal possibilities and paying experiences from anyone else who has done this mod, or uses pickups wired this way.

herb · Sep 27, 2014

Being a huge PG fan I would love to have a dedicated Les Paul with the magnet flip. I like the way my 1995 R8 sounds as it is, completely stock, so I'm not going to mess with it.

Years ago I ordered and purchased a set of Seymour Duncan Custom Shop Peter Green pups, so i'm part way there. My plan has always been to install them into a R7 Goldtop.

That's a beautiful Paul you've got there. Hope she sounds as good as she looks. Enjoy playing her.

soulbrojcs · Sep 27, 2014

I understand that the mod isn't for everyone. I put it off for a long time myself, but I'm glad I finally had it done. and thanks for the kind words about "Jacqueline". as you can see from the fingerboard wear in the pic, I've played her a lot.

there are places along the side of the neck that are starting to wear through the finish into the wood, but she feels and sounds great.

el84ster · Sep 28, 2014

Glad it worked for you. I've tried this several times with different pickups over the years. It does sound VERY different depending on what pickups you have. I've always put it back to in phase...it just was always too weird and unuseful to me. I really wish it would work though, I don't use both pickups much.

...maybe I'll give it another shot.

Big Al · Sep 28, 2014

More than half of my Les Pauls have a magnet flipped. I find I gain much more useful and musical sounds for me to abuse. I have embraced the quack.

Triburst · Sep 28, 2014

I still like doing the magnet flip with a push-pull bridge tone pot (I just can't hear the difference, because it's so tweakable with the sweet spots -- but some swear they can). It's like getting a really, really cool new stompbox -- you learn where to use it.

Gold Tone · Sep 28, 2014

Love the standard magnet arrangement middle position...I use that 90% of the time, but I use my volume and tone controls a lot so get good use from middle position.

I'd like to have a dedicated Green Lester too. Is it true that the OOP effect is significantly reduced by rolling back either volume a bit? Just enough to take away the balanced phase cancelation and let one or the other pickup dominate, or not so much?

Don · Sep 29, 2014

Gold Tone said:
Is it true that the OOP effect is significantly reduced by rolling back either volume a bit? Just enough to take away the balanced phase cancelation and let one or the other pickup dominate, or not so much?

It's very true! When I had a guitar setup with an OOP pickup, running the bridge volume at 10 and the neck volume at about 7 or 8 (this will vary depending on the pots used) made the guitar sounded almost stock.

You can actually hear the OOP sound "kick in" when you adjust the individual volume controls. The guitar will actually become quieter as you raise the volume control of one pickup to match the other.

My Carvin has a phase switch but I don't get a lot of use out of it because the guitar does not have individual volume and tone controls.

Gold Tone · Sep 29, 2014

Okay so now that REALLY makes it a useful mod!! I like that!!

soulbrojcs · Sep 29, 2014

I had it done Friday morning and used it for the first time on the gig the same night, making adjustments on the spot. I had a few instances of switching to a setting where the volume dropped at the wrong times, but all in all, once I started to get a little more familiar with it, it gave a whole lot of new tone colors to play with. I hadn't been using the two pickup setting very much for the past few years, but now I love it again. I find the new possibilities it provides VERY inspiring.

duaneflowers · Sep 29, 2014

I have the magnet flip on one guitar and plan on doing it to another soon... great effect! :dude:

Mats A · Sep 29, 2014

You can get the out of phase tone just by soldering the wire from the pickup the other way around.

brandtkronholm · Oct 1, 2014

Mats A said:
You can get the out of phase tone just by soldering the wire from the pickup the other way around.

I'm led to believe that this is produces a different sound than flipping the magnet. Apparently there's "wired OOP" and "magnet OOP" sounds. Not only do they sound different, they also function differently.

Someone with more experience could chime in on this.

duaneflowers · Oct 1, 2014

brandtkronholm said:
I'm led to believe that this is produces a different sound than flipping the magnet. Apparently there's "wired OOP" and "magnet OOP" sounds. Not only do they sound different, they also function differently.

Someone with more experience could chime in on this.

This is my understanding as well. I believe that the Peter Green pickups did not involve a magnet flip at all, rather they were actually wound backwards at the factory. Whether this reverse winding in conjunction with the actual reversing of the pickup (pole pieces north) has the same effect as a magnet flip or to what extent the dynamics actually change is where an expert would be appreciated.

At any rate I love the PG sound and am awaiting a set of Deacci Pure Legend “Green Faze” Humbuckers which I look forward to comparing with the Pickups in my CC#1 and the ones I did the magnet flip with.

I've heard some good things about these Deacci pickups (formerly RD Guitar Pickups) including a nice review in Guitar Gear so I'm quite keen on checking them out. :spabout

soulbrojcs · Oct 1, 2014

I'm interested in the theory that, when the guitar Green came to posses was being built, it was simply loaded with one regular humbucker, and one that was supposed to go into the middle position of a 3 PU Custom by mistake. never having or playing an original 3 PU Custom to have heard the sound personally (but have heard the Jimmy Page story about his Custom used in his studio musician days and the Yardbirds having an "out of phase sound") , this is intriguing to me.

duaneflowers · Oct 1, 2014

soulbrojcs said:
I'm interested in the theory that, when the guitar Green came to posses was being built, it was simply loaded with one regular humbucker, and one that was supposed to go into the middle position of a 3 PU Custom by mistake. never having or playing an original 3 PU Custom to have heard the sound personally (but have heard the Jimmy Page story about his Custom used in his studio musician days and the Yardbirds having an "out of phase sound") , this is intriguing to me.

This makes more sense then it was just mistakenly wound backwards... doesn't seem like an easy mistake to make. That it was intentionally wound that way as a third pickup and just put in the wrong guitar sounds about right. Not sure if there is any way to verify it though... :hmm

yeti · Oct 1, 2014

Our own Rev WilllieK has inspected Greeny and has stated that it is a magnet flip, no doubt.
Alternate theories notwithstanding, this one's settled, I believe.
Also, on a 2 wire Humbucker I wouldn't reverse the leads because it'll make for a real noisy pickup.

Three13 · Oct 1, 2014

I have a 1960 ES-345 that is OOP and it inspired me to flip the pickups in both of my conversions - I love the sound and feel like it really makes for a bigger overall tonal palette on each guitar. Plus, flipping a magnet doesn't cost you anything and is easy to reverse if you don't like it, making it a very low downside mod (unless you're dealing with an OG, unopened PAF).

Yeti, I've been meaning to ask - your name an Amon Duul reference?

yeti · Oct 1, 2014

Three13 said:
Yeti, I've been meaning to ask - your name an Amon Duul reference?

No, it was my nickname in High School in Germany. Not a big fan of Amon Duul, except Uschi of course

I agree on the usefulness of OOP sounds, my ES-5 has the bridgePU OOP with the mid and neck PU. Very useful. You can hear it on the right channel in the tune linked below (in my signature).

el84ster · Oct 2, 2014

The neck pickup in Green's guitar stopped working so he had it taken out to have it fixed. There are picks of him at a gig with no neck pickup. And when he got it back, the guy had flipped the magnet.

Neck Pickup Magnet Flip

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