Reissue Specs: Hide Glue?

mithrandir · Sep 24, 2014

Hi all, I'm finally in the market for a R8 or R9, and I see the 13s and 14s are constructed with hide glue.

Does it really make a big difference?

Or is it all just hype?

Tommy Tourbus · Sep 25, 2014

Cream Fan · Sep 25, 2014

It is NOT hype. The glue makes a sonic difference. Either you like that difference or you don't. My advice is to play a few of the '13s and '14s and hear it for yourself.

m bernardi · Sep 25, 2014

Cream Fan said:
It is NOT hype. The glue makes a sonic difference. Either you like that difference or you don't. My advice is to play a few of the '13s and '14s and hear it for yourself.

o yes it do

mithrandir · Sep 25, 2014

A good friend of mine let me play his 2012 R9, and it felt and sounded fantastic.

These did NOT have the hide glue, right? Just the 13s and 14s?

I'm going to have to head out to Guitar Center this weekend, and try some new Historics.

Cream Fan · Sep 25, 2014

Yes, go do that. Hopefully, the strings will be fresh. That makes a big difference, too.

mithrandir · Sep 25, 2014

Thanks Cream Fan, I will.

davebc · Sep 25, 2014

In the past year I added a Walsh and a Duane to the arsenal.
It's impossible to hear the sonic difference hide glue might make versus my non hide glue histories, especially given newer models now have custom buckers and no rubber sheathe on the truss rod.

If someone can actually hear the sonic quality of hide glue, please describe it.

Gold Tone · Sep 25, 2014

...and swap out the custom buckers with burst buckers to get the comparison of 2012 to 2013/2014 only a few hundred miles from no bias comparison.

mithrandir · Sep 25, 2014

My friend's 2012 R9 has Duncan's in it I think.

Big Al · Sep 25, 2014

Cream Fan said:
It is NOT hype. The glue makes a sonic difference. Either you like that difference or you don't. My advice is to play a few of the '13s and '14s and hear it for yourself.

I'm so sorry you are so wrong.:dang I have 4 Historics, two with hide glue, two with tite bond. I've some nice vintage stuff and new stuff. I don't play glue. I play guitar, and my guitars with modern glue are as good sounding, or better than my 2013's and the many 2014's I tried.

You can't hear glue. Nobody hears glue. HYPE short for HYPERBOLE. Exaggerated or misleading claims meant to generate sales.:ha

All the HYPE about hide glue started from an old artical with Max Baranet, where he made some personal observations about, the crysal properties and tone of hide glue. It didn't take long for unproven, unmeasurable, undocumented myth to become yet another vintage tone reality. It's a sticky subject, fueled by vintage fervor and mired in an adherence to blind faith.:headbange

Anyone that claims to hear a difference between types of glue has probably been sniffing too much glue.:##

Hot hide glue was used on original Les Pauls. The only benefit to having hot hide glue used on a new guitar is to match 50's spec. It is bragging points for the vintage obsessed and adds no tonal enhancement or structural benefit, other than it is easier to remove things that it is used on.

I prefer more modern adhesives for there greater ability to adhere. Glue that works.

If it is important that you have rendered animal collagen glue get a post 2012 one. They are excellent Les Pauls and I highly recommend them.

If glue isn't a big deal get any flippin' year Les Paul, I highly recommend them.

la

buckaroo · Sep 25, 2014

I own hide glue guitars (new and vintage) and non hide glue guitars.

IMO, what matters most is the resonance and frequency response of the individual pieces of wood. Everything else is secondary to that.

IMO, I think that the hide glue is used these days more for marketing/sales benefit. Even if some suspect it makes a difference there is no simple way to make an "evidenced based" statement about any sonic effect of hide glue versus non-hide glue in a solid body electric guitar.

I think that hide glue was originally used on neck joints to make repairs easier. That is, so the neck could be removed easier. Not so much for perceived sonic benefit. My guess is also that today's hide glue is different than the hide glue of yesterday...just like today's nitro lacquer is different than the nitro lacquer of yesterday.

My best advice: in the end, buy guitars based on how they sound and feel to you. That is really all that matters. Don't buy based on glue type.:teeth

mike1100r · Sep 25, 2014

buckaroo said:
buy guitars based on how they sound and feel to you. That is really all that matters. Don't buy based on glue type.:teeth

No matter glue might cause differences or not, thats the best advise i´ve seen so far in this thread.

DoctorMO · Sep 25, 2014

You cant tell the difference. The biggest diference in 13 and 14 is the custom bucker.My 13 is exceptional but the neck seems a little bigger than my very early 12. Hype and Marketting propagate Myth. For instance we all are believing that we have to refinish guitars with 50's nitro to have them appear "correct". maybe its not the laquer but the thickness of the finish and the way it is applied that makes it look a 50's instrument. I am starting to learn this and am trying to peel the myth away from the reality.

E-Rock · Sep 25, 2014

An interesting read:

Titebond vs. Hot Hide Glue Sound Experiment

Tommy Tourbus · Sep 26, 2014

DoctorMO said:
You cant tell the difference. The biggest diference in 13 and 14 is the custom bucker.

I do believe the change they made to the truss route and rod make a difference. The one 2013 I played sounded different to me than every other other Gibson I've played, and that difference was emanating from the neck area. The jury is still out for me on whether I liked it better. That particular neck had a very bad dead spot which I believe was probably caused by the increased resonance.

I'm interested to know how the truss route is different over previous years. Did they widen it, or lessen it? Or is it the same size?

Tommy Tourbus · Sep 26, 2014

E-Rock said:
An interesting read:

Titebond vs. Hot Hide Glue Sound Experiment

This is kind of silly in that it doesn't address the obvious, which is that the boards would all sound somewhat different from each other without the glue anyway. So what difference is the glue making, if any :## But it is interesting that there were consistently more prominent highs with the hide glue pieces

mithrandir · Sep 26, 2014

Hey people!

Ok, so I had a chance yesterday to play a 2014 R8 at my somewhat local Guitar Center.

I played it unplugged, and honestly, hide glue or not, I really couldn't tell a difference between that guitar and my buddy's 2012 R9, tone wise. The neck was a little thicker, the top was very nice as well.

The price tag was ridiculous, but it was Guitar Center after all, haha.

Cream Fan · Sep 28, 2014

Al: It's not the glue I'm hearing it's the difference in how the guitar responds. With my '03 Makeover, it had a Titebonded neck joint and now it has a hide glued neck joint. The guitar was made over twice, first by Dave Johnson and second time by Kim's new crew. Dave left the Titebonded joint alone. All other aspects being relatively equal the biggest difference is that neck joint.

Now, what do I hear? Before the guitar was made over a second time, the guitar was bright acoustically, but I heard more depth to the tone by resting my chin on the upper bout and strumming the strings. There was a slight difference between my chin on the mahogany and my chin on the maple top. There was also a difference between those two methods and just hearing it acoustically without any contact with my head. I should explain that I have conductive hearing loss and that putting my chin on the bout gives me a better picture of the true frequency response.

Here's the interesting part. Now, with the hide glue joint, I hear no difference between having my chin placed anywhere on the guitar and my head off the instrument. It's CONSISTENT...and it's really GOOD. It's as if the entire body has now become more acoustically tuned and I hear that through the amp, too. Really clear and really responsive and really dynamic.

Am I imagining things? I'll concede the possibility, but my brain hears this every time I play it and it gets better every day. So, I don't think I'm losing my mind ;-)

renderit · Sep 28, 2014

At the very least it certainly makes repairs easier.

Georgio agrees as well.

Reissue Specs: Hide Glue?

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