• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Over two weeks 'n' no Big Al

corpse

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
4,876
Big Al has been on my mind. Hopefully he just got pissed at the Playstation...
 

garywright

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
15,583
seems after the discussion when he knew there were NO recordings made with a NEW burst in the 50s he disappeared ...I'm interested to learn more on that topic from him
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Sorry, I've been in Buffalo, at the Roswell Cancer Center for treatment. I go back monday. Not able to play much, but will be trying some while I'm home.

For the record I ain't got no hate for uber light Lesters. Just don't like the bullshit made up crap about how super light = super good.

30 years of inquirey from every guitarist I have met, who was working from 57-62, many high profile players, has confirmed for me the humbuckers failure in solidbodies at that time. No one has offered any other proof. Believe what you want.

What little time I have to play only confirms how really fine my two 2013 Historic Les Pauls play and sound. I don't give a flying humpty hump about plastic tints and inlay hues. The tonal colors are vivid and musical and they are a pleasure to play. Believe what you want.

I'm tired and need to go rest. F*CK CANCER!! and IV needles!!:rofl :headbange
 

corpse

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
4,876
I'd be interested in getting a translation of that line about 57-62 guitarists at some point. The Institute in Buffalo took good care of my Brother In Law. He survived mouth cancer and now regularly beats me at golf. Good to hear from you- keep doodling them new guitars. IO'm loving mine- even with the new plastic.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
I'd be interested in getting a translation of that line about 57-62 guitarists at some point. The Institute in Buffalo took good care of my Brother In Law. He survived mouth cancer and now regularly beats me at golf. Good to hear from you- keep doodling them new guitars. IO'm loving mine- even with the new plastic.


I'll try and give a breif account as this has been covered before. Quite a while ago many of us wondered why such fabulous guitars as Les Pauls, Flying V's and Explorers failed so badly in the late 50's.

I loved almost everything about 50's guitars. Gibson, Fender, Gretsch ect.. I couldn't get enough, and every new discovery was a major event for me. Back then, ( the mid 70's in my case), info, truly reliable info was harder to come by. Books, what few that existed, were often filled with misinformation and conjecture. Things like 1948 Teles and Les Paul TV models made for television visibility, for example.

I realised that fact checking was rather relaxed, to say the least, AND I WANTED TO KNOW!!!

So I did what I do. I used the best resources I had and investigated. Trips to Kalamazoo in the 70's introduced me to several Gibson employees from the 50's. I met and had long talks with many high profile collectors and dealers and every working guitarist from that time.

Common wisdom at the time was that Les Pauls were too heavy and were dropped in 61, replaced by SG Les Pauls. That was what the books said. Later books introduce fashion, as in OLD FASHIONED.

My thoughts were that 50's Les Pauls weren't that heavy. I didn't buy that reason, and in the 70's with it's heavy Les Pauls it was easy for most to accept.

I lived in NY, NV, CA and breifly in SC. I was involved in music as a player and in retail. I met many cool guitarists and artists from that era and I ASKED THEM, stuff like,"You used a Goldtop Les Paul, why not a 57 with Humbuckers or a Burst?" or, " Did you know of any recording or radio artist that used Humbucker Les Pauls?"

I met and asked this of Tommy Tedesco, Roy Clark, Hubert Sumlin, BB King, John Lee Hooker, Carl Perkins and others, ALL who played Les Pauls. I asked it of other artists, mostly guitar players from that era. I learned that back then the Solid Body Guitar was revolutionary and considered to be a new kind of instrument. Expectations were very different in the 50's where these guitars were new and exciting.

I learned a lot. I did as much research as I could. Film, records interviews any thing to learn more. The overwhelming consensus seemed to be that the humbucker was rejected by most SOLIDBODY users as not "right" for the expectations of late 50's and early 60's users of the plank.

IMO from everthing I was told, this seems true. No other reason I can find would account for such an overwhelming failure. Other facters may have had a personal impact on individuals, but it wasn't weight or color or flame or old fashion looks that was rejected by the majority, if not the entire recording/radio/performing guitarist of that era.

Make of it what you will. I'd invite anyone to research this. I only caution against using present day sensibilities to measure 50's expectations.

I do like the new 2013 Les Pauls I have, but they in no way superceed my favorite Y2k or 99 R9s. It is all good, except my playing.

The staff in Buffalo are great and I am in good hands. I have accepted that I am in the ride out of my song. I am hoping the faders are pulled down slowly, but every tune has to end... I'm just shooting for the Allman Brothers ending!!!:dude:
 

Pat Boyack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
4,510
Nevermind that from 57 to beyond 60 P90 Les Pauls a very much in evidence on record and stage. A time when ZERO Bursts are being used professionaly. In fact the earliest recorded example of a Burst is in 63 with a used one. I don't think any new or originaly owned Bursts were ever recorded or used by professional musicians. Same for PAF Goldtops.

This is what blew my mind. Wrong.....but still blew my mind.
 

sidekick

New member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
3,060
Big Al said:
............

I learned a lot. I did as much research as I could. Film, records interviews any thing to learn more. The overwhelming consensus seemed to be that the humbucker was rejected by most SOLIDBODY users as not "right" for the expectations of late 50's and early 60's users of the plank.

IMO from everthing I was told, this seems true. No other reason I can find would account for such an overwhelming failure. Other facters may have had a personal impact on individuals, but it wasn't weight or color or flame or old fashion looks that was rejected by the majority, if not the entire recording/radio/performing guitarist of that era.

Make of it what you will. I'd invite anyone to research this. I only caution against using present day sensibilities to measure 50's expectations. ......

Absolutely, Big Al... My understanding, is, (along with others) that the more "cranked" amp/humbucker sound from Eric Clapton in the UK and Michael Bloomfield in the USA was pivotal for what happened later, (being subsequently embraced thereafter post circa '65 onwards by other guitarists of that musical genre).

Compliments and best wishes from a UK LPF member.
 
K

Kim R

Guest
A used one.

Against its own will, no doubt.

All due respect to Al and others, I don't see the need or even the likelihood of discovering "proof" of the reasons behind a marketing decision made by a couple of folks in Kalamazoo 53 years ago. Had one of the known decision makers gone on record by stating his reasons after fact, fine - but that kind of history doesn't seem to be available.

BigAl, I don't doubt your conversations and recollections for a second; I simply take that information and come to a different conclusion. No right/wrong (because I don't know), just an opinion. I would also appreciate it if you would get this medical stuff done and out of the way so you can devote more time to giving everyone around here a ton of crap with greater regularity.:hank
 
Last edited:
Top