Planing the fingerboard of a vintage git: How much of a bummer?

[blauserk]

There's a cool vintage ES I'm looking at. Current owner had it refretted by a great Vancouver luthier (Eiichi-san). But the board looked curiously new and, sure enough, the luthier did a very modest planing of the board. It's not so extreme that the side markers are no longer centered, but I don't like the fact that the board has lost 50 years of playing gunk and finger sweat. The fingerboard basically looks new. Would that be a dealbreaker for you if you otherwise liked the fiddle?

[tuberide]

A well respected luthier righting a vintage piece to excellent playing condition...well there's a hoop you don't have to jump through. If the fresh board is bothering you then the right price will be part of the consideration.
It should not take long to break it in. Apply some raw linseed oil or other and play.

[Brown Recluse]

If it was already my guitar and I felt that the luthier had unnecessarily planed the board, I would be upset. If there was a good reason for planing the board and it wasn't excessive, I would be fine with it. I would play it and let it accumulate my sweat and grime.

[mingus]

It wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker for me, but I would expect a significant discount over the value of one that was otherwise similar without the planed board. It matters. Just ask anyone trying to sell a high-end vintage guitar that has had repairs.

[bizzwriter]

I would rather have a modestly planed vintage fingerboard (done by a competent luthier) than a fingerboard full of divots. I'll put my own sweat and gunk on it soon enough.

[BurstMeUp]

Originally Posted by Brown Recluse

If it was already my guitar and I felt that the luthier had unnecessarily planed the board, I would be upset ...

Removing dirt and gunk is NOT a reason for planing ... EVER!

There are solvents that can remove dirt and grime witout harming the fretboard or the finish.

Before anyone gets a re-fret, I seriously advise you to actually ASK what will need to be done BEFORE you let any work begin, and what work IS and what work is NOT permitted without your consent!

If they moan, fug-em' and go elsewhere.

Regardless of a luthier's reputation, no one removes wood off my fingerboard without asking first and explaining why it's necessary!

[Litcrit]

I think that one of the most common reasons old guitars have fingerboards planed is to deal with the common "neck rise" issue where the neck meets the body. Sometimes you have to plane the board a bit to get rid of the "ski slope" that naturally occurs due to neck rise. It's the only way to get the neck playable on the upper frets. If the dots are really close to the board on the upper frets, that's why it was done.

[J.D.]

I think it is good practice to *delicately* level any high spots on the board before refretting. By that I mean at the fret slots, and not take it down to remove every "character" mark. To get those frets nice and level, it's either that or the frets

[Siegler]

Originally Posted by J.D.

I think it is good practice to *delicately* level any high spots on the board before refretting. By that I mean at the fret slots, and not take it down to remove every "character" mark. To get those frets nice and level, it's either that or the frets

+1 - while I am instinctively totally opposed to planing, I feel that it makes sense to bring down the very highest "hills", not necessrily making the whole thing level in that troughs should be left where they develop - after all, in the case of peaks that'd really risen over the years and interfere with the setting of the frets, the board won't end up with less thickness than it originally had

[montesada]

Eiichi is magic. That instrument will be blessed.

[blauserk]

The guitar in question.



Again, doesn't seem like it's lost appreciable wood. But the board looks like it was off the 2003 run of brazilian board LPs.

[The Stumble]

Its unfortunate that the luthier didn’t re age the board or at least re oil to make it look a little more authentic

If anyone has seen the dan erlewine dvd on refretting he has to sand a 1954 goldtop fretboard in order to level it and he ages it back to a dark dull finish really well and very quickly.

Its worth watching if you haven’t seen it

[latestarter]

unless there is a neck problem "planing" is not really required. What might have happened is that the board was gently levelled with a straight edge sander. That will make the board look new...but I tend to agree with J.D in that knocking the high spots off only is a good option. Just doing an old Duo Jet right now and that's what I did, leaving the very typical Gretsch vertical scratches in a lot of places....

[cryptozoo]

A couple of my vintage gits have had their boards planed by previous owners. Luckily, all were pro jobs and seem to have been done sparingly and for playability purposes, but it can certainly be a bummer when done incorrectly. I've played guitars that were planed so poorly it changed the board curve or left painfully sharp edges.

[Bob Womack]

Well, let's be honest. Gibsons are known to put out a few guitars that develop a compound bow in the neck. A compound bow is one where the treble and bass sides aren't relieved by the same amount, ie. you can flatten the board entirely on one side and there is still relief on the other. As a result of this, if you get one side perfect, the other will have a hump in the middle or if you get the other side perfect the one side will have too much relief. Comprende'?

The only way to get good fret alignment is to plane the board back to reasonable flatness when you refret. Otherwise you'll have buzz issues or a rotten action. I've had it done on my old LP by a pro. Yes, you can see that he did it if you look at it obsessively, but as a result of his work, the guitar played spectacularly for the first time in its life.

Bob

[Otto 57]

Originally Posted by The Stumble

Its unfortunate that the luthier didn’t re age the board or at least re oil to make it look a little more authentic

If anyone has seen the dan erlewine dvd on refretting he has to sand a 1954 goldtop fretboard in order to level it and he ages it back to a dark dull finish really well and very quickly.

Its worth watching if you haven’t seen it

Do you have a link? I need to see that.

[Burrmanchu]

Originally Posted by bizzwriter

I would rather have a modestly planed vintage fingerboard (done by a competent luthier) than a fingerboard full of divots. I'll put my own sweat and gunk on it soon enough.

AMEN!

[57special]

Originally Posted by montesada

Eiichi is magic. That instrument will be blessed.

This.

[The Boz 56]

Alot of those Gibson archtop fingerboards get that flip over the body - I'd rather have a guitar that works. That looks like a great job - get it and play it - sweat on it - play it like T-Bone and that board will have the layer of snot you covet so much in no time.

[FlyingNotes]

Originally Posted by Litcrit

I think the one of the most common reasons old guitars have fingerboards planed is to deal with the common "neck rise" issue where the neck meets the body. Sometimes you have to plane the board a bit to get rid of the "ski slope" that naturally occurs due to neck rise. It's the only way to get the neck playable on the upper frets. If the dots are really close to the board on the upper frets, that's why it was done.

I totally agree with this.

Also: IMO, one can't really get the frets seated and properly dressed if the board is all over the place. Commonly, if the frets were "gone" to the point that a refret was needdd (on an old guitar), chances are very good that the instrument will significantly benefit from being planed as well.

Nothing lasts forever (thankfully).

Nice instrument,

[Mr. 355]

I think that you could safely rub some dark stain into the FB grain and darken it to taste. I've done this, it was very easy.

[latestarter]

So for clarity here, and fingerboard rise aside, when you folk talk about "planing" does that include levelling with a straight edge pre a refret?

[sharq attaq]

Originally Posted by latestarter

So for clarity here, and fingerboard rise aside, when you folk talk about "planing" does that include levelling with a straight edge pre a refret?

Yeah, I was wondering too.
Shouldn't 125 have 12" radius? I would hope whoever did the neck kept to the original spec, whatever it was.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by latestarter

So for clarity here, and fingerboard rise aside, when you folk talk about "planing" does that include levelling with a straight edge pre a refret?

Yep. They pull the frets, set the neck to zero relief, and then remove any compound bow or small rises with a plane or other means. Then they refret.

There have been interesting results with two of mine:
My LP had a nick that a friend had put in the finger board. It was initially an irritation but after ten years had become a memory. I was hoping it wouldn't disappear and it didn't. There's a tiny ghost line left that the luthier sealed for me.

On an acoustic, my luthier went to plane my ebony neck and found out it wasn't. Ebony, that is. It was a chunk f very nice Brazillian rosewood that had been dyed at the factory. He removed the dye after planing to leave a pretty board.

Bob

[latestarter]

It's all about terminology I guess - I call that levelling and I see it part of a quality refret. Planning on the other hand is when I get out the iron and take some real meat off to rectify some sort of lifting, falling, twisting or otherwise.

[j45]

Originally Posted by blauserk

The guitar in question.



Again, doesn't seem like it's lost appreciable wood. But the board looks like it was off the 2003 run of brazilian board LPs.

Jeez, that's a gorgeous guitar. Like you said, you can tell very little wood was removed during this "very modest" planing. The side markers look perfectly normal. Do you have other pics of the fingerboard out of gthe sun? The board may not look as light as it seems. I have photos of pretty dark boards that look just that light in a sunlight photo. That, and old boards that are just a bit dry can look like that in pics as well. That looks like an awesome guitar.

[FlyingNotes]

Originally Posted by sharq attaq

Yeah, I was wondering too.
Shouldn't 125 have 12" radius? I would hope whoever did the neck kept to the original spec, whatever it was.

When a fretboard is planed, think of leveling the piece of wood from the nut to the position of the highest fret. Dependent upon the ultimate radius (say, 14" versus 7.25"), one can roll the planer from the bass side to the treble side as the board is worked, or, one can plane the entire board flat and then sand in the radius.

There are many tools available to complete this sort of work, and the tool of choice is going to depend upon the amount of wood to be removed. The object of the work will always be to produce a piece of flat wood when viewed longitudinally, but shaped into a cylinder of various radii when viewed from side-to side.

[sidekick]

Interesting thread with constructive LPF member comments.... ☺

That does look a beautiful guitar.