Fool SG in Guitar Player

EnglishLP · 04-02-07, 02:26 PM

There was a piece on the Fool SG in Guitar Player a while back that included a double-page picture of the guitar, with a black and white cut-out of Clapton in the lower right corner.

Can someone tell me which issue that was in? And is it the best photograph of the guitar out there, or is there one bigger and better somewhere?

I've searched the threads but, if the answer's there, I can't find it.

Thanks all.

Cream Fan · 04-02-07, 02:31 PM

I have that picture in a frame on my wall. I believe it was an issue in 1985. Not sure of the month, though, and I could easliy be mistaken about the year. There is no issue number or date on the page.

Guitar World also did a centerfold of the guitar.

lpnv59 · 04-02-07, 02:52 PM

Without seeing the picture you're looking for. There was a published centerfold pic of a Fool SG, that a friend had framed on his wall. I took a good look at it and had to tell him, it wasn't a pic of the original but a replica. And not a very good replica at that.

sgant · 04-02-07, 03:01 PM

Did Todd Rundgren still have the Fool when he was touring with The New Cars? It would be interesting to hear Elliot Easton's take on "The Fool".

Guitar Whiskey · 04-02-07, 07:29 PM

Elliot recently commented on the original fool, I think in the ETSG forum. I'm not entirely sure of what he said from memory, but I think he played it years ago (Todd no longer has the original) and said it was a bit average and the neck finish on the back was really rough from a worn through handpainted artwork finish. The neck wood had degraded from the sweat over the years. I always thought the sound Clapton got was pretty great and Todd's Black Maria was also fantastic. Todd owned (and played it to death) this guitar far longer than anyone so to me this will always be Todd's guitar.

The Boz 56 · 04-02-07, 08:25 PM

To me the Fool SG will always symbolize a really great era. Jeff from Fabgear painted this one for me. Its so fun to play:

http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...Fool_Front.jpg

Strat God · 04-05-07, 09:54 AM

Rick over at Guitar Hanger currently has one hanging in the store.

Wally · 04-05-07, 02:47 PM

EnglishLP, that picture is on page 41 of the July '85 GP magazine. It is a single page and is of the front only.
Thanks for inquiring. You caused me to pull that year of GP and look through them. The Mar issue has some beautiful pics of a few of Vic DePra's 'bursts.
George Gruhn writes the narrative and observes that 'bursts are in the $5,000-6,000 range for plain tops with figured tops bringing more. He says he had heard of one going for...gasp...$14,000.

Cream Fan · 04-05-07, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpnv59

Without seeing the picture you're looking for. There was a published centerfold pic of a Fool SG, that a friend had framed on his wall. I took a good look at it and had to tell him, it wasn't a pic of the original but a replica. And not a very good replica at that.

Billy, do you remember where that picture was published?

lpnv59 · 04-05-07, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cream Fan

Billy, do you remember where that picture was published?

Sorry no! The first time I saw it I assumed it was the original. A few years later after studing websites and pics of the original I went over to this friends house. The photo was framed on his wall and it was obvious to me that it was a copy.

EnglishLP · 04-05-07, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

EnglishLP, that picture is on page 41 of the July '85 GP magazine. It is a single page and is of the front only.
Thanks for inquiring. You caused me to pull that year of GP and look through them...

Thanks, Wally. Actually, I'm pretty sure the picture I've seen is a double-page spread. Does the one you have show a small black and white of Clapton in the lower right corner?

Cream Fan · 04-05-07, 07:07 PM

The double-page spread is from Guitar World and shows the guitar hanging in front of a blue tie-dyed background. There is a long inset column to the right of the guitar that has the text headed by a B&W picture of Clapton. This spread was SUPPOSED to be in included in their book GUITARS THAT SHOOK THE WORLD. Instead there is a rather mundane photo of MY replica instead.

Billy, that's why I asked if you remembered. It's very possible that the picture you saw was taken from this book (published in 1995) and was my replica, but I do take exception to it being called an inferior copy. The painting was done by Ian Wilkie of Scotland and is actually of finer quality than the original. For some crazy reason, they substituted my crappy slide (which I sent them in 1989 and is the same picture in my avatar) for their original and very professionally photographed spread.

rabbit · 04-05-07, 10:59 PM

Cream Fan ........

Very interesting, man. Where did you get your guitar ?

Thanks !!

EnglishLP · 04-05-07, 11:28 PM

This is the spread I was talking about . . .

Cream Fan · 04-06-07, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbit

Cream Fan ........

Very interesting, man. Where did you get your guitar ?

Thanks !!

I purchased a stripped (except for the pots and pickguard) 1964 SG from Cambridge Music back in 1989. I then sent it to Ian Wilkie in Scotland, who then did the painting. The still unassembled guitar was sent back to me. I then took it to Mark Herbert, who shot every painted piece with an acrylic clear-coat and then put it all together.

EnglishLP: That is the spread I have on my wall, too, along with the elusive one from Guitar World.

rabbit · 04-06-07, 02:48 PM

Cream Fan ----

Cool story to go along with this cool guitar. I didn't know it was a '64 !! Man .........

Thanks a lot for sharing the info !!

Corey ( Another Cream Fan )

lpnv59 · 04-06-07, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLP

This is the spread I was talking about . . .

I do remember that centerfold. That wasn't the photo I was talking about with the fake one obvously.

lpnv59 · 04-06-07, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cream Fan

Billy, that's why I asked if you remembered. It's very possible that the picture you saw was taken from this book (published in 1995) and was my replica, but I do take exception to it being called an inferior copy.

I do not remember where I saw it. Its been a while since I saw the mag and almost as long since I saw it framed on my friends wall. If it was your replica, I apologize for the faux pas. Whatever guitar in the pic I saw, didn't look close enough to me. Not to say that the work was inferior. But just that as a copy of a work of art, I could tell the difference with a laymans eye. I know nothing about art is all I'm saying.

Cream Fan · 04-06-07, 03:14 PM

Well, just to clear up any misconceptions (and don't sweat it, Billy, there must be thousands of replicas out there), here's a web page with the spread from Guitar World's book. As you can see, it looks kind of like a certain avatar, don't you think? ;-)

http://www.giftcards4you.com/clapton_sg.htm

EnglishLP · 04-07-07, 01:12 AM

Cream Fan . . .

Do you know the issue number/date of the 'elusive' Guitar World article you mention? And that was of the original was it, and not your replica? (Very nice looking guitar, btw.)

Cream Fan · 04-07-07, 07:05 AM

Thanks for your kind words. Unfortunately, I do not remember the issue. I believe it was sometime in the early 90s, AFTER I sent them my slide. I do have the spread framed next to the one from Guitar Player. And, yes, THAT photo is of the original.

EnglishLP · 04-09-07, 09:19 AM

Does anybody know the current location/owner of the Fool SG?

TheMiz · 04-09-07, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLP

Does anybody know the current location/owner of the Fool SG?

Todd still has it.

http://www.myspace.com/guitaristpeterbanks

lpnv59 · 04-09-07, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMiz

Todd still has it.

Todd was using a replica Fool with Ringo's Allstars a few years back. He told a friend of mine that he had auctioned the original thru Christies. He expressed displeasure with the amount he had recieved.

EnglishLP · 04-09-07, 03:32 PM

Yes, I thought it sold at Sotheby's in 2000. Did it actually sell, or did Todd pull it at the last minute?

http://www.geocities.com/hodja451/ar...on2.html?20078

TheMiz · 04-09-07, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLP

Yes, I thought it sold at Sotheby's in 2000. Did it actually sell, or did Todd pull it at the last minute?

http://www.geocities.com/hodja451/ar...on2.html?20078

Minimum Bid: $120,000.00?

http://www.myspace.com/guitaristpeterbanks

EnglishLP · 04-09-07, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMiz

Minimum Bid: $120,000.00?

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. That snapshot of the page must have been taken a few days before the auction closed, and I seem to recall that $120,000 was the figure it 'sold' for.

TheMiz · 04-10-07, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLP

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. That snapshot of the page must have been taken a few days before the auction closed, and I seem to recall that $120,000 was the figure it 'sold' for.

Just thinking that the Min. would be the figure the seller would have been happy with.

If you read that auction write up it makes it look like Clapton donated it . No word of Todd. Was there more than one Crossroads auction ?

http://www.myspace.com/guitaristpeterbanks

Drivematics · 04-11-07, 09:23 AM

The Fool SG is owned and played by Jimmy Vivino from the Max Weinberg 7 on Conan. He plays it periodically on the show. Prior to Todd owning the guitar it was owned by Jackie Lomax who is an aquaintance of mine and who lives nearby in Ventura County Ca. He laments ever getting rid of the guitar to Todd but said it was in such poor condition that he never thought it would ever hold up or be worth a damn. I am not sure though if the guitar was restored before Jimmy Vivino bought it...but it has been restored at some time.

EnglishLP · 04-11-07, 03:16 PM

There's a shot of Mr. Vivino playing a Fool SG on his website, but this one looks like a copy to me . . .

http://www.jimmyvivino.com/Blues2000/blues2000.html

. . . am I mistaken?

Drivematics · 04-13-07, 07:51 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's the one that bought it at auction. Anybody else know who the purchaser was at the auction?

j e gray · 04-13-07, 09:00 PM

EnglishLP,

The Guitar World Collector's Choice centerfold
featuring Eric's SG originally appeared in the
November 1991 issue. As stated above, the
Guitar Player feature is in the July '85 issue.

EnglishLP · 04-14-07, 12:20 AM

Thanks, j.e.

Albert · 04-22-07, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLP

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. That snapshot of the page must have been taken a few days before the auction closed, and I seem to recall that $120,000 was the figure it 'sold' for.

I just happened to run across this older thread today. This Rundgren site says the Fool (or "Sunny" as Todd called it) sold at Sotheby's for $150,000, but doesn't say to whom:
http://www.seahaas.com/toddrundgren/runtology.html
(You need to scroll down the page more than halfway to the photo of Todd with the Fool.)

And just to reopen an old can of worms: I'm familiar with the arguments for The Fool being a circa '64 SG, not a '61 SG/LP. But in the June 1970 Guitar Player interview with Clapton, the interviewer refers to "the Les Paul, on the live side of Wheels of Fire," and Clapton doesn't correct him. Similarly, in Dan Forte's extensive December 1989 Guitar World interview with Clapton, the interviewer refers to "the psychedelic-painted '61 SG/Les Paul" and says it "must have come with the big sideways vibrato tailpiece." Clapton replies "It came with the sideways tremolo on it, which I took apart, but I kept the bridge and the tailpiece. I never liked tremolos. I've never been able to stand the bloody things. Eventually I put a stop tailpiece on it."

The Disraeli Gears-era photos of Clapton with the Fool show a Lyre-style Vibrola with the Lyre cover removed, not a sideways vibrato. So did Clapton misunderstand the meaning of "big sideways vibrato tailpiece" as well as thinking his guitar was a Les Paul rather than an SG? Or was the caption for the July '85 Guitar Player photo of the Fool correct--that it was a '61 SG/Les Paul on which Clapton replaced the sideways vibrato with the Lyre Vibrola and then the trapeze tailpiece (which was on it around the time of the live Wheels of Fire recordings)? (It does seem odd that Clapton would bother putting on the Lyre Vibrola, given his disdain for "tremolos," but it was the current tailpiece at the time so maybe he decided to try it.)

Also, I downloaded a history of the guitar supposedly written in the first person by Rundgren, called the "Legends of Rock & Roll Special Sale Spotlight: The Story of the Guitar I Call 'Sunny'." The author refers to it as a "Les Paul SG model." If this is an authentic document, it seems odd that the guitar would be mistakenly considered a Les Paul by two of its owners, especially Clapton--who was quite a collector, as well as by the music/guitar magazines.

Has anyone here seen what the heel/neck joint of the Fool looks like? That might provide more evidence as to the vintage of the guitar. (It's possible that if it was a '61, that the original pickguard could have been replaced with the 6-screw one appearing in photos or that an extra screw was added.)

TheMiz · 04-22-07, 05:59 PM

Took the cover off mine too;

The Boz 56 · 04-22-07, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMiz

Took the cover off mine too;

Beautiful - did Jeff do it?

TheMiz · 04-22-07, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Boz 56

Beautiful - did Jeff do it?

Yes he did.

He does wonderful work .

http://www.myspace.com/guitaristpeterbanks

beck-ola · 04-26-07, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Whiskey

Elliot recently commented on the original fool, I think in the ETSG forum. I'm not entirely sure of what he said from memory, but I think he played it years ago (Todd no longer has the original) and said it was a bit average and the neck finish on the back was really rough from a worn through handpainted artwork finish. The neck wood had degraded from the sweat over the years.

Eric removed or had someone remove the art/paintwork from the neck soon after the Fool painted it.

Phil 52 · 04-26-07, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beck-ola

Eric removed or had someone remove the art/paintwork from the neck soon after the Fool painted it.

Correct!

young angus · 04-26-07, 07:15 AM

Albert: the different views on what The Fool really was are very strange. I heard that the guitar originally was given to Clapton by George Harrison, but I´ve also heard that Clapton had it painted by the same artist after he bought it new. The annoying extra screw in the pick guard has for a long time been presented as a proof for The Fool being a -64. However, after spending some time at this forum minor technical changes seems not to be useful to date a Gibson from the 50s and early 60s. Clapton´s memory seems to be an even less secure source. Interesting findings in the interviews, however.

The Fender Forum	The Cafe Wah	LilyPix
Merchandise	Vintage Guitar Registry	LPF Homesite

04-02-07, 02:26 PM	#1
EnglishLP Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 207	Fool SG in Guitar Player There was a piece on the Fool SG in Guitar Player a while back that included a double-page picture of the guitar, with a black and white cut-out of Clapton in the lower right corner. Can someone tell me which issue that was in? And is it the best photograph of the guitar out there, or is there one bigger and better somewhere? I've searched the threads but, if the answer's there, I can't find it. Thanks all.

04-02-07, 02:31 PM	#2
Cream Fan Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,752	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player I have that picture in a frame on my wall. I believe it was an issue in 1985. Not sure of the month, though, and I could easliy be mistaken about the year. There is no issue number or date on the page. Guitar World also did a centerfold of the guitar.

04-02-07, 02:52 PM	#3
lpnv59 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NH/MA Bordertown USA Posts: 8,876	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Without seeing the picture you're looking for. There was a published centerfold pic of a Fool SG, that a friend had framed on his wall. I took a good look at it and had to tell him, it wasn't a pic of the original but a replica. And not a very good replica at that. __________________ When I was a kid, I used to pray everynight for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn't work that way. So I stole one and asked him to forgive me. ~ Marvin

04-02-07, 03:01 PM	#4
sgant Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southwest Michigan Posts: 229	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Did Todd Rundgren still have the Fool when he was touring with The New Cars? It would be interesting to hear Elliot Easton's take on "The Fool". __________________ "Some people talk about me like a revolutionary. That's nonsense; all I did was copy B.B. King." - Eric Clapton

04-02-07, 07:29 PM	#5
Guitar Whiskey All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,703	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Elliot recently commented on the original fool, I think in the ETSG forum. I'm not entirely sure of what he said from memory, but I think he played it years ago (Todd no longer has the original) and said it was a bit average and the neck finish on the back was really rough from a worn through handpainted artwork finish. The neck wood had degraded from the sweat over the years. I always thought the sound Clapton got was pretty great and Todd's Black Maria was also fantastic. Todd owned (and played it to death) this guitar far longer than anyone so to me this will always be Todd's guitar. Last edited by Guitar Whiskey : 04-02-07 at 08:17 PM.

04-02-07, 08:25 PM	#6
The Boz 56 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,542	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player To me the Fool SG will always symbolize a really great era. Jeff from Fabgear painted this one for me. Its so fun to play: http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...Fool_Front.jpg

04-05-07, 09:54 AM	#7
Strat God Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 435	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Rick over at Guitar Hanger currently has one hanging in the store. __________________ So many guitars. So little time. Gray-Haired, Beer-Gut Rock & Roll !!! www.thekeystoneband.com

04-05-07, 02:47 PM	#8
Wally Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 1,042	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player EnglishLP, that picture is on page 41 of the July '85 GP magazine. It is a single page and is of the front only. Thanks for inquiring. You caused me to pull that year of GP and look through them. The Mar issue has some beautiful pics of a few of Vic DePra's 'bursts. George Gruhn writes the narrative and observes that 'bursts are in the $5,000-6,000 range for plain tops with figured tops bringing more. He says he had heard of one going for...gasp...$14,000. __________________ "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

04-05-07, 07:07 PM	#12
Cream Fan Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,752	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player The double-page spread is from Guitar World and shows the guitar hanging in front of a blue tie-dyed background. There is a long inset column to the right of the guitar that has the text headed by a B&W picture of Clapton. This spread was SUPPOSED to be in included in their book GUITARS THAT SHOOK THE WORLD. Instead there is a rather mundane photo of MY replica instead. Billy, that's why I asked if you remembered. It's very possible that the picture you saw was taken from this book (published in 1995) and was my replica, but I do take exception to it being called an inferior copy. The painting was done by Ian Wilkie of Scotland and is actually of finer quality than the original. For some crazy reason, they substituted my crappy slide (which I sent them in 1989 and is the same picture in my avatar) for their original and very professionally photographed spread.

04-05-07, 10:59 PM	#13
rabbit Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 300	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Cream Fan ........ Very interesting, man. Where did you get your guitar ? Thanks !!

04-05-07, 11:28 PM	#14
EnglishLP Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 207	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player This is the spread I was talking about . . .

04-06-07, 02:48 PM	#16
rabbit Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 300	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Cream Fan ---- Cool story to go along with this cool guitar. I didn't know it was a '64 !! Man ......... Thanks a lot for sharing the info !! Corey ( Another Cream Fan )

04-06-07, 03:14 PM	#19
Cream Fan Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,752	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Well, just to clear up any misconceptions (and don't sweat it, Billy, there must be thousands of replicas out there), here's a web page with the spread from Guitar World's book. As you can see, it looks kind of like a certain avatar, don't you think? ;-) http://www.giftcards4you.com/clapton_sg.htm

04-07-07, 01:12 AM	#20
EnglishLP Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 207	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Cream Fan . . . Do you know the issue number/date of the 'elusive' Guitar World article you mention? And that was of the original was it, and not your replica? (Very nice looking guitar, btw.)

04-07-07, 07:05 AM	#21
Cream Fan Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,752	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Thanks for your kind words. Unfortunately, I do not remember the issue. I believe it was sometime in the early 90s, AFTER I sent them my slide. I do have the spread framed next to the one from Guitar Player. And, yes, THAT photo is of the original.

04-09-07, 09:19 AM	#22
EnglishLP Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 207	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Does anybody know the current location/owner of the Fool SG?

04-09-07, 03:32 PM	#25
EnglishLP Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 207	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Yes, I thought it sold at Sotheby's in 2000. Did it actually sell, or did Todd pull it at the last minute? http://www.geocities.com/hodja451/ar...on2.html?20078

04-11-07, 09:23 AM	#29
Drivematics Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 75	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player The Fool SG is owned and played by Jimmy Vivino from the Max Weinberg 7 on Conan. He plays it periodically on the show. Prior to Todd owning the guitar it was owned by Jackie Lomax who is an aquaintance of mine and who lives nearby in Ventura County Ca. He laments ever getting rid of the guitar to Todd but said it was in such poor condition that he never thought it would ever hold up or be worth a damn. I am not sure though if the guitar was restored before Jimmy Vivino bought it...but it has been restored at some time.

04-11-07, 03:16 PM	#30
EnglishLP Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 207	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player There's a shot of Mr. Vivino playing a Fool SG on his website, but this one looks like a copy to me . . . http://www.jimmyvivino.com/Blues2000/blues2000.html . . . am I mistaken?

04-13-07, 07:51 PM	#31
Drivematics Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 75	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's the one that bought it at auction. Anybody else know who the purchaser was at the auction?

04-13-07, 09:00 PM	#32
j e gray Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 276	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player EnglishLP, The Guitar World Collector's Choice centerfold featuring Eric's SG originally appeared in the November 1991 issue. As stated above, the Guitar Player feature is in the July '85 issue. Last edited by j e gray : 04-13-07 at 09:10 PM.

04-14-07, 12:20 AM	#33
EnglishLP Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 207	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Thanks, j.e.

04-22-07, 05:59 PM	#35
TheMiz Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: oHIo Posts: 2,278	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Took the cover off mine too;

04-26-07, 07:15 AM	#40
young angus Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 206	Re: Fool SG in Guitar Player Albert: the different views on what The Fool really was are very strange. I heard that the guitar originally was given to Clapton by George Harrison, but I´ve also heard that Clapton had it painted by the same artist after he bought it new. The annoying extra screw in the pick guard has for a long time been presented as a proof for The Fool being a -64. However, after spending some time at this forum minor technical changes seems not to be useful to date a Gibson from the 50s and early 60s. Clapton´s memory seems to be an even less secure source. Interesting findings in the interviews, however.