Transitioning to lead, what songs to learn first?

Thundermtn · Oct 18, 2017

I really appreciate the tips and growth directions.

I have a good grasp of the pentatonic scale and use it but I think part of my problem and what has kept me from really digging in and developing up to now has been finger size, especially above the 14-15th fret. My ring size is 13.5, for most people it would be like playing with gloves on. It's like having to re-learn how to play a little when stuff isn't shaped the same finger wise up there due to how I'm cheating my normal style. I am getting cleaner notes by leaving my ring finger out of the way or using it to mute, and using my pinky for hammer on's. The box is just my index and middle fingers up that high.

The licks will more than likely start coming faster though. mdubya, I'm starting to hear pieces of other lead lines as I'm smoothing out the first solo from Miss. Queen, there's a bend and pull off in there that are super Jimmy Page sounding. Seems sort of like learning Black Sabbath main riffs, once you've got a few down the rest come a lot easier.

mdubya · Oct 18, 2017

Above the 15th fret is the upper register.

Below the 15th fret is the cash register.

:hippy

Ed Driscoll · Oct 18, 2017

Thundermtn said:
I'm starting to hear pieces of other lead lines as I'm smoothing out the first solo from Miss. Queen, there's a bend and pull off in there that are super Jimmy Page sounding. Seems sort of like learning Black Sabbath main riffs, once you've got a few down the rest come a lot easier.

Sounds like you're off to a great start -- even the greatest players have admitted to umm, "borrowing" other players' licks, as Clapton does at the 3:10 mark in this 1968 BBC interview after their original farewell concert:

jb_abides · Oct 19, 2017

Whoever said you gotta learn what you love first is spot on, it's gotta flow from the head n' heart.

Adding George Harrison (the Beatles songs first) and Elliot Easton (Cars), to the list.

Great thread, BTW! :salude

psigh4 · Oct 19, 2017

duaneflowers said:
You should learn something YOU like, or that has some meaning for YOU... learning other people's favorites is a sure way to set yourself up for failure... guaranteed...

+1

The reason I asked about the set list earlier is because it helps to be working on songs that your band is going to play anyway. I always liked trying to play slower songs that evoke emotion from the listener. Clapton with "Wonderful Tonight", "Bell Bottom Blues", "While my Guitar Gently Weeps" or try playing the coda from "Layla" (Duane or Eric or even a mixture of both). Ballads are always great (country, rock, blues or you can take a song you like from one genre and switch to the tempo of another genre). Something that can be sung that gets stuck in your head on solos is good also but Duaneflowers said it best: "learn something YOU like".

Also remember you don't need to do it like the original. Do it the way you like to hear it. That is what makes us all a little different and makes it interesting to hear somebody else play the song their way. A lot of lead playing is not as hard as it sounds in a mixed song just do a search in You Tube on isolated lead guitar track. Add the band who did the song your interested in and you can find tab for the lead portions all over the net. Most importantly have fun.:salude

Pat Boyack · Oct 19, 2017

BB King - Live at the Regal

renderit · Oct 19, 2017

duaneflowers said:
You should learn something YOU like, or that has some meaning for YOU... learning other people's favorites is a sure way to set yourself up for failure... guaranteed...

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard! If you don't learn what other people like you starve! Guaranteed! I liked operettas by Mario Lanza. Thank God I made money with software...

Thundermtn · Oct 19, 2017

We had a rehearsal last night, it went pretty well. Learned a little more, being in the mix helped some. I was able to throw a few licks into a song that needed them. Nothing amazing at all, but one thing I did figure out was that I need to stop fearing a wrong note in a lick and let myself go.

Warning guitar dork mode; is now on.

Using varied attack along with the pickups I've switched to now, there's a breaking point easier to hear for me in the upper register where the sterile ceramic bridge gives way to the alnico's sweeter harmonic overtones in the neck. It's like there are two sounds from that one note. Some of the notes beg for that shrill sound and some call for that smooth sweet tone to hold for a little bit. If I can find the right balance in the timing of that tone transition the effect of what I was playing was pretty pleasing and didn't have to be a thousand miles an hour. The speed will come later but for now I'm going to add a little liquid courage so I'm not worried about perfection and let it rip, while letting the guitar help decide how long a note should hold for in the song that it fits in with.

Pellman73 · Oct 20, 2017

Thundermtn said:
We had a rehearsal last night, it went pretty well. Learned a little more, being in the mix helped some. I was able to throw a few licks into a song that needed them. Nothing amazing at all, but one thing I did figure out was that I need to stop fearing a wrong note in a lick and let myself go.

Warning guitar dork mode; is now on.

Using varied attack along with the pickups I've switched to now, there's a breaking point easier to hear for me in the upper register where the sterile ceramic bridge gives way to the alnico's sweeter harmonic overtones in the neck. It's like there are two sounds from that one note. Some of the notes beg for that shrill sound and some call for that smooth sweet tone to hold for a little bit. If I can find the right balance in the timing of that tone transition the effect of what I was playing was pretty pleasing and didn't have to be a thousand miles an hour. The speed will come later but for now I'm going to add a little liquid courage so I'm not worried about perfection and let it rip, while letting the guitar help decide how long a note should hold for in the song that it fits in with.

there is a perfect amount of blood alcohol level that achieves that zen state of rock and roll where you let it flow and don't worry about stuff then past that where you suck and can't play. not advocating the use of alcohol to get over nerves but more the concept of disinhibition and self criticalizing. yea. self criticalizing.

one thing that I've done that has helped me get better is Yousician-- incredible software and you can use any iOS device. I've been doing it for a couple years. there is a rhythm track and a lead track-- I have done both and am at the final level now. lots of fun and the best part is there is real time feed back. I guess you have to be able to play to moving tab and some people that does not suit but the good part is that you will not advance unless you play it right (and it hears chords and everything. its crazy).

Guitar Whiskey · Oct 20, 2017

Live at Leeds. No pun intended. Seriously Townshend is a great study on basic lead scales. A good place to start.

JamesE · Oct 30, 2017

I'm in a similar position in that I've spent 50 years strumming chords on an acoustic guitar while singing.
Now I've got my Les Paul I spend some time watching videos on internet sites, learning the solos to songs I already know and love.

For improvisation, my recommendation would be Owen Bryce's "Let's Play Jazz" series (never mind your style), the 3 small books are packed with a lifetime's knowledge, and very easy to read.

But, as has been said before, music is about feeling.

renderit · Oct 30, 2017

Big Al · Oct 30, 2017

Brother, grabbing' licks from songs is a time honored tradition. My advise is that you already are a good player so the info is already in yer noggin'. What I would advise is to woodshed on the pentatonic scales within each chord form. As a strong rhythm player you know how chord structure affects the song within the songs key. Sing a melody or lead line, scat sing it along to the chord changes. The lead you wish to play is there, in your being and as you scat sing along with the changes play licks that start one the root, (1), of the chord making sure that you end the lick on the root of the next chord and compose a phrase that ends yet again on the root of each chord as it happens. What you want to do is chain licks starting on the one of each chord making sure that you are hitting that root note on the same beat as the chord change.

This is best learned with 12 bar blues type 1-4-5 changes and the turnaround is a quick change that resolves to the songs key. You will notice that all the classic turn arounds follow the chords with the resolve on the 5 at the end and placing you right where you want to be to continue along.

I recently was showing this to a pal that had the same question you ask, and what I did was show him how to do short stabbing phases that followed each cord to see how the melody plays of that. It allows for more musical melodies, IMO than just jamming away in the root key scale. You'll soon notice that all the fragments of each chords scale falls into the root key. When you understand the concept of following the chords it becomes much easier to construct solos, for any song on the spot. I was a go to guy for years when a guitarist was unable to make a gig and often found myself playing in bands where I didn't know the songs or had played with them before. If there was a keyboardist I stood next to them and had them out line the song for me. Give me the key, chord structure, middle 8 and chorus and I could come up with a decent lead or fill melodies easy.
No keyboards, Bass players are great and just as helpful. After awhile you will become familiar with song structure and can spice up your playing by inserting relative notes instead of the one for interest or you can leave an unresolved note to add tension.

It just comes with playing and thinking a bit different, instead of chords you are playing a kind of arpeggio instead, a series of notes, of your choice within the chord, musical phases instead of chords. Otherwise you are just learning note for note solos you can memorize for each song. Boring! Knowing the chords and the scale makes learning a song much easier as you can see it in your mind before you even play. Or at least have a good idea of what you are hearing and decipher it much easier.

It's a deep subject and one that is always growing, there is so much more, but this concept I think can open up the doors for you and make it much easier to get where you want to be. I just am not so good at 'splaining it. I know there are some much better and more lucid peeps here that might get what I'm getting at and can make it make more sense. YOU KNOW THIS STUFF!:hank:hank:hank

John Vasco · Oct 30, 2017

A bit late to the party on this one, but here goes.

First of all, everything that Big Al says, take it in. The guy has probably forgotten more than most people know.

You've already said you've played along to Mississippi Queen. Take a listen to this one a few times, then get into playing along to the song, both chords in the verses and the two solos. It has what I call the 'Three Ts': tone, technique and taste.

Triburst · Nov 2, 2017

Big Al said:
Brother, grabbing' licks from songs is a time honored tradition. My advise is that you already are a good player so the info is already in yer noggin'. What I would advise is to woodshed on the pentatonic scales within each chord form. As a strong rhythm player you know how chord structure affects the song within the songs key. Sing a melody or lead line, scat sing it along to the chord changes. The lead you wish to play is there, in your being and as you scat sing along with the changes play licks that start one the root, (1), of the chord making sure that you end the lick on the root of the next chord and compose a phrase that ends yet again on the root of each chord as it happens. What you want to do is chain licks starting on the one of each chord making sure that you are hitting that root note on the same beat as the chord change.

This is best learned with 12 bar blues type 1-4-5 changes and the turnaround is a quick change that resolves to the songs key. You will notice that all the classic turn arounds follow the chords with the resolve on the 5 at the end and placing you right where you want to be to continue along.

I recently was showing this to a pal that had the same question you ask, and what I did was show him how to do short stabbing phases that followed each cord to see how the melody plays of that. It allows for more musical melodies, IMO than just jamming away in the root key scale. You'll soon notice that all the fragments of each chords scale falls into the root key. When you understand the concept of following the chords it becomes much easier to construct solos, for any song on the spot. I was a go to guy for years when a guitarist was unable to make a gig and often found myself playing in bands where I didn't know the songs or had played with them before. If there was a keyboardist I stood next to them and had them out line the song for me. Give me the key, chord structure, middle 8 and chorus and I could come up with a decent lead or fill melodies easy.
No keyboards, Bass players are great and just as helpful. After awhile you will become familiar with song structure and can spice up your playing by inserting relative notes instead of the one for interest or you can leave an unresolved note to add tension.

It just comes with playing and thinking a bit different, instead of chords you are playing a kind of arpeggio instead, a series of notes, of your choice within the chord, musical phases instead of chords. Otherwise you are just learning note for note solos you can memorize for each song. Boring! Knowing the chords and the scale makes learning a song much easier as you can see it in your mind before you even play. Or at least have a good idea of what you are hearing and decipher it much easier.

It's a deep subject and one that is always growing, there is so much more, but this concept I think can open up the doors for you and make it much easier to get where you want to be. I just am not so good at 'splaining it. I know there are some much better and more lucid peeps here that might get what I'm getting at and can make it make more sense. YOU KNOW THIS STUFF!:hank:hank:hank

Dammit, Al, where were you when I was learning!!!

This post is gold. The only thing I would add is to be sure to learn your scales as mentioned earlier.

Also, one of the best "chop building" songs I ever played is Hotel California by the Eagles. The outro riff alone will give you great finger range, timing, and fingerboard movement exercises.

Thundermtn · Nov 3, 2017

Al that was a great piece of info there! The scat part will help a lot too b/c I can just record licks and attack them vocally or with a guitar and instantly know if something fits, without having to be able to read much music or be a scale master.

I got a copy of The Guitar Grimoire also to help deconstruct chords. One of my favorite things about listening to Gary Moore is how he can peel those licks off but the notes aren't always predictable, but always fit in a fashion that is really pleasant.

Transitioning to lead, what songs to learn first?

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