The Fender Forum
NEW! LPF Facebook Page
LilyPix
Merchandise & Donations
NEW! Burst Serial Log Home Page
LPF Homesite
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1

    Question for 335 experts

    Why is the Memphis 1959 VOS 50% more expensive than the 1958, other than the neck binding?

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    347

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by bogdan101 View Post
    Why is the Memphis 1959 VOS 50% more expensive than the 1958, other than the neck binding?

    I don't think there was a 50% difference in street price. 2016s 59s are $5,999 and 58s are $4,199 (not sure what the prices are for 2017s right now, as Gibson just had another price hike).

    It's mostly due to marketing - just as with Les Pauls, 59s are the high end and 58s are next tier down.

    As for construction, you get all hide glue construction on the 59 (58 has a mix of hide glue, Titebond, and Assemble 65 glue [whatever that is]).

    Neck binding on the 59, no binding on the 58.

    Also note: Nashville-made 59s have all maple bodies, while Memphis 59s and 58s are maple-poplar-maple.

  3. #3

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    I was thinking the same thing. Thanks for the post!

  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Pinehurst, NC
    Posts
    856

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    see if you can track down a Rusty Anderson (2013)

    I was bummed out by the 1959 VOS prices as I thought I'd pay 5 and the guitar would be worth .... not 5

    I got a warren haynes and then learned about the Rusty Andersons

    they are going for closer to mid threes, they only made 250 of them, they are based off his 1959 (same neck profile. somewhat like a collectors choice 335 if you will), and if you spend 3500 you could get it back and I'm guessing they will appreciate in value.

    I think they are great 1959 blonds for the price and you won't be effectively losing a grand the minute you buy one

    anyone else feel this way?

    there are some beautiful blistery topped 1959 VOS ones that I really love but... I think this is a great guitar if you want a 1959 blond es 335


  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    25

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by indravayu View Post
    I don't think there was a 50% difference in street price. 2016s 59s are $5,999 and 58s are $4,199 (not sure what the prices are for 2017s right now, as Gibson just had another price hike).

    It's mostly due to marketing - just as with Les Pauls, 59s are the high end and 58s are next tier down.

    As for construction, you get all hide glue construction on the 59 (58 has a mix of hide glue, Titebond, and Assemble 65 glue [whatever that is]).

    Neck binding on the 59, no binding on the 58.

    Also note: Nashville-made 59s have all maple bodies, while Memphis 59s and 58s are maple-poplar-maple.
    Right now the Gibson site shows the 2016 1959 ES-335TD at $6499 street. That's what the OP is asking about. I've noticed that too.
    And no, there is no difference to merit anywhere near that difference.
    '15 Gibson Traditional Pro 3T Heritage Cherry Sunburst
    '12 Gibson SG Special Heritage Cherry (with 490/498 pups)
    '15 Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster Plus
    ’14 Epiphone Les Paul Traditional PRO Desert Burst
    ’11 Epiphone Les Paul Custom Ebony (aka early Custom PRO)
    '15 Epiphone Ltd. Ed. Riviera Custom P93 Blue Royale
    '15 BC Rich Mockingbird Contour Black
    ’14 BC Rich PRO X Custom Bich
    '10 BC Rich KKW Warlock
    ’93 Squire by Fender MIM
    '73? Aria SG (Lawsuit Era Japan)
    '83? Kramer Pacer

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Some place between bad wood & good wood
    Posts
    908

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Id buy the 58 hands down , but if you want neck binding find a nice used 59 VOS .
    He was a sonic disaster, thinking hours of practice would make up for stock pickups, poorly carved top and The wrong glue !

  7. #7

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    None of it makes sense to me. It's like why is a beautifully figured R8 so much cheaper than an R9?

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Some place between bad wood & good wood
    Posts
    908

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by jalevinemd View Post
    None of it makes sense to me. It's like why is a beautifully figured R8 so much cheaper than an R9?
    People have a list of reasons a R9 is better , most reasons are ridiculous . I own two very nice R8s I bought in 2007 and Im into these two guitars for less than a R9 I would consider buying .
    He was a sonic disaster, thinking hours of practice would make up for stock pickups, poorly carved top and The wrong glue !

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    347

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    Right now the Gibson site shows the 2016 1959 ES-335TD at $6499 street. That's what the OP is asking about. I've noticed that too.
    And no, there is no difference to merit anywhere near that difference.
    That's not actual street, as you will see if you click the links to Wildwood that I added to my post.

    Also, I see that Sweetwater currently has a 59 listed at $5,849 and a 58 at $4,049.

    I paid $4,100 for a 58 in 2016.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Lost in the Ozarks [again]
    Posts
    39,825

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by jalevinemd View Post
    None of it makes sense to me. It's like why is a beautifully figured R8 so much cheaper than an R9?
    It's like why is a beautifully figured [vintage] 58 so much cheaper than an 59?
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hόter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    25

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by indravayu View Post
    That's not actual street, as you will see if you click the links to Wildwood that I added to my post.

    Also, I see that Sweetwater currently has a 59 listed at $5,849 and a 58 at $4,049.

    I paid $4,100 for a 58 in 2016.
    Okay, you can argue whether it is street or not, but the prices on the Gibson website are considered to be street, and generally are the same as the regular prices at dealers. Yes, in some cases like this, dealers have them for less. And also in this case, for good reason. But I don't consider any one dealers price to be the "street" price. As you just shown, those dealer prices vary.
    '15 Gibson Traditional Pro 3T Heritage Cherry Sunburst
    '12 Gibson SG Special Heritage Cherry (with 490/498 pups)
    '15 Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster Plus
    ’14 Epiphone Les Paul Traditional PRO Desert Burst
    ’11 Epiphone Les Paul Custom Ebony (aka early Custom PRO)
    '15 Epiphone Ltd. Ed. Riviera Custom P93 Blue Royale
    '15 BC Rich Mockingbird Contour Black
    ’14 BC Rich PRO X Custom Bich
    '10 BC Rich KKW Warlock
    ’93 Squire by Fender MIM
    '73? Aria SG (Lawsuit Era Japan)
    '83? Kramer Pacer

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    347

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    Okay, you can argue whether it is street or not, but the prices on the Gibson website are considered to be street, and generally are the same as the regular prices at dealers. Yes, in some cases like this, dealers have them for less. And also in this case, for good reason. But I don't consider any one dealers price to be the "street" price. As you just shown, those dealer prices vary.
    I have never, ever - not even once - paid the price listed on Gibson's site (and I have owned a lot of Gibsons over the years - not as many as some of the high rollers here - but way more than your average player).

    The stores from which I buy my Gibsons (and I posted a big list of them on the Historics subforum several days ago) almost always list their guitars well below Gibson's published prices - and even when they don't, all you have to do is call/email and ask for a better price and (if you're not an a**hole and your seem ready to buy), they will give you a deal.

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,428

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    It's like why is a beautifully figured [vintage] 58 so much cheaper than an 59?
    I've no idea, I've yet to play a 58 that doesn't beat every 59 I've ever played.

    Maybe I've just been lucky.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    At the end of the Long White Cloud
    Posts
    6,751

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    The '58 ri is better value for money than the '59 for sure......... and I like the beefier neck on the one that I tried at my local store.

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,270

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    The 2015-2017 Mempish 1959 is a higher spec instrument in these ways:

    binding
    hot hide glue used on fingerboard attachment
    solid center block ("1959" spec)
    hot hide glue used for rim assembly, spruce braces, and maple centerblock

    the 1958 uses the same construction as the 63, but without binding and with dot inlays:
    center block cutaway like on a 60s ES-335
    "assembly 65 glue" used on fingerboard attachment
    titebond used for rim assembly



    not necessarily higher spec, but the 59 neck seems to shade .02.-.05 thinner



    Maybe someone can post a pic of their 58 ES-335 bridge cavity? This is a 2016 59 ES335-

    Last edited by wizardmc; 10-19-17 at 09:04 PM.

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,282

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by jalevinemd View Post
    None of it makes sense to me. It's like why is a beautifully figured R8 so much cheaper than an R9?
    Especially when it's Not a solid piece of Maple like a Les Paul.. It's a layer of veneer. I'm not saying it's cheap because they have to buy a log or a board that's 17-18" wide and cut that. If I recall from my Jr. High Woodshop days, they take a log and turning it & peeling off the wood in a long sheet to make the ply's for plywood.
    But still.. No Way worth the extra $$ between one model and the next..

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,282

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardmc View Post
    The 2015-2017 Mempish 1959 is a higher spec instrument in these ways:

    binding
    hot hide glue used on fingerboard attachment
    solid center block ("1959" spec)
    hot hide glue used for rim assembly, spruce braces, and maple centerblock

    the 1958 uses the same construction as the 63, but without binding and with dot inlays:
    center block cutaway like on a 60s ES-335
    "assembly 65 glue" used on fingerboard attachment
    titebond used for rim assembly

    not necessarily higher spec, but the 59 neck seems to shade .02.-.05 thinner
    My `63 block inlay ES-335TDC was built using Hide Glue for the fingerboard, neck joint, Spruce expansion plates/center block. I think I paid $4k for it at the end of 2014.

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,270

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    My `63 block inlay ES-335TDC was built using Hide Glue for the fingerboard, neck joint, Spruce expansion plates/center block. I think I paid $4k for it at the end of 2014.
    Are you sure? That has not been the spec since 2015 - the 63s and 58s did not get hide glue for the fingerboard attachment. It was Assembly 65 glue, per Gibson. Only the hyperexpensive 59s were and are getting hide glue there for some reason.

    I am not sure about 2014, as you cannot check the spec right now. But I don't recall Memphis using hide glue for the fingerboard on their 63 RIs - it's been one of the sticking points for why I haven't bought one. I've asked repeatedly through dealers over this time.

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    347

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardmc View Post
    Are you sure? That has not been the spec since 2015 - the 63s and 58s did not get hide glue for the fingerboard attachment. It was Assembly 65 glue, per Gibson. Only the hyperexpensive 59s were and are getting hide glue there for some reason.

    I am not sure about 2014, as you cannot check the spec right now. But I don't recall Memphis using hide glue for the fingerboard on their 63 RIs - it's been one of the sticking points for why I haven't bought one. I've asked repeatedly through dealers over this time.

    Yeah, that's been my impression, as well.

    If you watch this NAMM 2014 video with Mike Voltz, he describes the full 2014 line as having hide glue neck joins, but doesn't mention the fretboard - only when describing the 59 335 does he specify that this model is all hide glue, including bracing, neck join, and fretboard.

    https://youtu.be/2wEiiTc8Kn8

  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,344

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Gibson charges more for the '59 reissue because it's a "59", and, as we all know, 1959 is the "magic" year for Gibson guitars.
    "Last night I saw a naked cowgirl-she was floatin' 'cross the ceiling,"

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,270

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Gary View Post
    Gibson charges more for the '59 reissue because it's a "59", and, as we all know, 1959 is the "magic" year for Gibson guitars.
    True for the Les Paul line, but the ES-335s have construction differences. The most common myth on the internet is that the 63, 58, and 59 are the same but for binding and inlay differences.

  22. #22

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    I own a 2016 '59 335 RI, I have owned pre-'60 Gibsons all my life and I am not a 335 expert . You can get a better deal than Gibson's "street price" at any good dealer. I recommend Lance at Wildwood.

    Even with the "higher specs", IMO the '58 is ounce-for-ounce a better deal - how could it not be? But, if you want the closest thing to what would now be a $50k+ '59 335 (given pristine condition), buy the '59 RI. It's really just a matter of what matters most to you.

    I've said in other posts, and to the degree it matters to any other players here, I was dead-set on buying an early 60's 335 earlier this year, starting a search in earnest, and bought the '59 RI to simply have something similar to play in the mean time. Advance 9 months or so, and I have no interest in continuing my 335 search. My '59 is just that good. Maybe the very clear monetary investment potential will draw me back to my search, maybe I'll stumble across a vintage 335 I can't say no to - who knows? But for now, my RI is just as inspiring to play, if not more in some respects, than any of the vintage Gibson electrics I've owned for decades.

    If you love your '58 RI I think that's awesome. If the value of it makes you even happier, that's even more awesome. The sales at CME make buying any of these RI's an absolute no-brainer. Run, don't walk, to buy an any of those!

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    25

    Re: Question for 335 experts

    Quote Originally Posted by billyjk View Post
    I own a 2016 '59 335 RI, I have owned pre-'60 Gibsons all my life and I am not a 335 expert . You can get a better deal than Gibson's "street price" at any good dealer. I recommend Lance at Wildwood.

    Even with the "higher specs", IMO the '58 is ounce-for-ounce a better deal - how could it not be? But, if you want the closest thing to what would now be a $50k+ '59 335 (given pristine condition), buy the '59 RI. It's really just a matter of what matters most to you.

    I've said in other posts, and to the degree it matters to any other players here, I was dead-set on buying an early 60's 335 earlier this year, starting a search in earnest, and bought the '59 RI to simply have something similar to play in the mean time. Advance 9 months or so, and I have no interest in continuing my 335 search. My '59 is just that good. Maybe the very clear monetary investment potential will draw me back to my search, maybe I'll stumble across a vintage 335 I can't say no to - who knows? But for now, my RI is just as inspiring to play, if not more in some respects, than any of the vintage Gibson electrics I've owned for decades.

    If you love your '58 RI I think that's awesome. If the value of it makes you even happier, that's even more awesome. The sales at CME make buying any of these RI's an absolute no-brainer. Run, don't walk, to buy an any of those!
    Well put. It is the law of diminishing returns. With the exception of wanting to have an original simply because it is an original. Then you just pay the price and that's that. But otherwise, the increase in quality becomes very small for the additional cost. Very small. I found it interesting that Joe B said that you can get 95% of the best sound out of a not too expensive guitar. And you will pay though the nose improve on that. Now I'm paraphrasing what he said, and don't recall if 95 was the exact %, but the message came across loud and clear. Spending twice as much won't get you a guitar that's twice as good. Just marginally better if anything.
    So in cases like this where there is *really* little differences, it should make anyone think twice about what they are paying premium $$ for.
    '15 Gibson Traditional Pro 3T Heritage Cherry Sunburst
    '12 Gibson SG Special Heritage Cherry (with 490/498 pups)
    '15 Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster Plus
    ’14 Epiphone Les Paul Traditional PRO Desert Burst
    ’11 Epiphone Les Paul Custom Ebony (aka early Custom PRO)
    '15 Epiphone Ltd. Ed. Riviera Custom P93 Blue Royale
    '15 BC Rich Mockingbird Contour Black
    ’14 BC Rich PRO X Custom Bich
    '10 BC Rich KKW Warlock
    ’93 Squire by Fender MIM
    '73? Aria SG (Lawsuit Era Japan)
    '83? Kramer Pacer

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Scroll Down And Click On All Of Our Sponsors' Logos For Their Websites!