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  1. #1
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    How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Question is in the title

    But I would like to also expand upon conversions from 52/53 to 54/56 (sticking with the goldtops) where the necks have been reset and or hardware replaced and new holes for the ABR etc

    I'd really like to splash out on something in the new year, with a maximum budget of under £20k GBP. I really need some of that super old wood and braz board action before I get too committed in life and wind up needing to spend money on other things.

    I've seen in the UK (online prices in the EU) range from having a converted 52 to a 54 wrap with totally beat up finish for as low as £12k GBP to a totally mint original 54 wrap for in Paris for £26k GBP. And sky's the limit with a mint 56 I've seen £38k

    I would only be in the position to spend less than £20k GBP, ideally less.

    I could fly to the USA and pickup a original 54 wrap with original case and in decent condition for say £17k plus flights and accommodation. Another option is I could pickup an original 56 for £17k that has been refinished. Everything else is original on it but it looks like a new true historic.

    In terms of playability for me this would probably be ideal as the 56 bridge configuration is what I am used to. Also has been refretted and all the rest of it. Sure if this was original finish in that condition it would be double the price

    Functionality is most important to me, it needs to play flawlessly as well as sound the part, or there is no point in owning it if I don't enjoy playing it equally or more than say a new R9. Looks are 2nd, but a very close 2nd

    This purchase would also be an investment, something to hand down to the unborn kid(s) should any arrive, or get me out of trouble financially should anything come up (would rather have £20k in a guitar than £20k doing nothing in the bank or in stocks etc).

    I've always loved the worn checking and the like of the original finishes. So maybe I would regret a refin. There isn't anyone in the UK who does relic jobs I don't believe. The tom Murphy 56 is not relic just painted so it looks new.

    It's a long way off for me and none of these instruments will be around in the new year (probably) but other similar ones will be.

    In your personal opinions for your own uses, what would you go for?

    Many thanks guys. Very interested in your thoughts and what you ended up purchasing ?
    Last edited by Patek; 10-03-17 at 01:28 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    I had a 52-57 Gold Top Conversion built for me two years ago.
    Started with an original 52 with 75 % of original finish remaining.
    Had the neck re-set, installed two vintage PAF's, refret with 59 style frets, and all other late 50's parts.
    By far this is the best playing and sounding guitar I have ever owned.
    I have owned several 50's , 60's goldtops,,,Historics,,late 50's 335's.
    This is the best.
    Finishing touches?
    The original finish is in tact and I would never by a conversion that has been refinished.
    Pay more for an original one.


  3. #3
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Great response, thanks mate.

    What makes this conversion so great for you? Also what made you go for getting a conversion when you already have (or had) 50s goldtops? Also what made you move on your 50s goldtops (the one(s) you don't own anymore.

    so the moral of the story for you personally is original finish is a must.

  4. #4
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Another question: did you have the 52 first and know it was a great guitar stock prior to the conversion? What's the story? Many thanks

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    I got this one in 1980 and have not had it refinished.



    I think that shows how important the original Goldtop finish is to me.
    Pauls to the walls!

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  6. #6
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    An original P90 wraptail Les Paul is an iconic sounding/playing guitar that needs no modification to improve. Buy an original 56 GT and call it a day...you're set for life with one of those.

  7. #7
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Hello mate, is that a 57? Absolutely love it! That's the kind of look I like and would pay extra for, over a refin, but how much extra is the question I suppose if I really want a 50s LP perhaps

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    Hello mate, is that a 57?
    Was that question for me?

    Mine is a 56 GT converted to humbuckers [before I got it].
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

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  9. #9
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by marfen View Post
    An original P90 wraptail Les Paul is an iconic sounding/playing guitar that needs no modification to improve. Buy an original 56 GT and call it a day...you're set for life with one of those.
    Thanks for the response. Unlikely I will find a 56 for under £20k however in original finish/parts

  10. #10

    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    The Goldtops that I sold were all P90's.
    To me they were noisy and not as versatile as PAF's.
    The guitars all had the smaller frets that to me are not as desirable.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bouldergold View Post
    I had a 52-57 Gold Top Conversion built for me two years ago.
    Started with an original 52 with 75 % of original finish remaining.
    Had the neck re-set, installed two vintage PAF's, refret with 59 style frets, and all other late 50's parts.
    By far this is the best playing and sounding guitar I have ever owned.
    I have owned several 50's , 60's goldtops,,,Historics,,late 50's 335's.
    This is the best.
    Finishing touches?
    The original finish is in tact and I would never by a conversion that has been refinished.
    Pay more for an original one.


  11. #11
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    For me i love P90s, especially in a LP.
    I assume Frets can be changed without any loss to the original integrity to the instrument to 59 style or larger modern as most 50s LPs I've seen have been refretted at some point to make it playable

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member dwagar's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Having the original finish wasn't as important to me as being able to afford one.

    My '53 GT was stripped and horribly finished with clear poly. But the price was right. And I wanted a player guitar.

    If investment is that important, I'd think you'd want as close to dead stock original as you can find.
    - Don

    Originally Posted by reswot
    A 50's Special is, IMO, the coolest guitar ever made.

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member Jeggz's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    I've thought about selling or trading my 54 Wraptail many a time for 52/53 - 57 conversion, original finish is ABSOLUTELY a must, it's actually more important than P.A.Fs.


    To me.

    But I guess at the end of the day it's a modified guitar, so does it really make a difference?


    Id go with the 54.

  14. #14
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Great responses so far guys I'm enjoying the read

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member thin sissy's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Have you played a wraptail LP before? We are many who love them, and I personally think it would be a big shame to convert a fine 54 to an ABR-1 "56".

    Of course, one can do whatever one wants with one's own guitar, I know that.
    This is a song from the new album, it's a deep meaningful song this one... No, it's not whiskey in the fucking jar... Philip Lynott

  16. #16
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by thin sissy View Post
    Have you played a wraptail LP before? We are many who love them, and I personally think it would be a big shame to convert a fine 54 to an ABR-1 "56".

    Of course, one can do whatever one wants with one's own guitar, I know that.
    I wouldn't want to convert a 54 to a 56.

    I'd happily have a 52 converted to a 54 !

    I'd only want to convert a 52/53 with the trap style bridge to something else (54 or 56) due to the shallow unplayable neck, or buy one that had been converted.

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member Highway Star's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I got this one in 1980 and have not had it refinished.



    I think that shows how important the original Goldtop finish is to me.
    LOL, it certalnly does. That guitar takes "vintage look" to a totally new level. Looks awesome by the way. Got its own personallity
    Check out my music http://www.lindbloom.se

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member thin sissy's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    I wouldn't want to convert a 54 to a 56.

    I'd happily have a 52 converted to a 54 !

    I'd only want to convert a 52/53 with the trap style bridge to something else (54 or 56) due to the shallow unplayable neck, or buy one that had been converted.
    Sorry man, I misread your post. I'm kind of in the same boat BTW, I'm hoping to get a vintage goldtop within the next year, but there aren't many for sale here, and one of the few I know of is refinished. My ideal guitar would be an original finish wraptail 54/55.

    Keep us posted
    This is a song from the new album, it's a deep meaningful song this one... No, it's not whiskey in the fucking jar... Philip Lynott

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member dwagar's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    I wouldn't want to convert a 54 to a 56.

    I'd happily have a 52 converted to a 54 !

    I'd only want to convert a 52/53 with the trap style bridge to something else (54 or 56) due to the shallow unplayable neck, or buy one that had been converted.
    A Mojoaxe bridge is a better option IMO.
    - Don

    Originally Posted by reswot
    A 50's Special is, IMO, the coolest guitar ever made.

  20. #20
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by dwagar View Post
    A Mojoaxe bridge is a better option IMO.
    The trap piece looks good

    However Is there not an issue with 52s having a shallow neck angle and therefore the action will never be as good as the later models without a reset? I wouldn't want to compromise on a nano metre

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member dwagar's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    That's what they are designed to do. The action on mine is great.
    - Don

    Originally Posted by reswot
    A 50's Special is, IMO, the coolest guitar ever made.

  22. #22
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Thanks don, sounds great

    How does it play and feel compared with the 56 style hardware ?

    Any pics also ? Cheers

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member dwagar's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    The action is fine, the intonation is quite good. I don't know if it's different than an ABR1 guitar to play, I don't really notice much of a difference switching from the trap to a wrap tail to an ABR1 guitar. For me the differences are more in neck size, pickup differences. Someone that spends more time comparing the differences would probably have more insight to that.

    I'm one of those guys that doesn't like converting an original. My '53 had a poor conversion to an ABR1 that I had the tech reverse when it was refinished. But other people don't have the same feeling about converting, it's your guitar, your decision. I was on the hunt for a '52 that I could afford, an early '53 was close enough. I was born in '52, I've wanted one since I was 16, lol.


    - Don

    Originally Posted by reswot
    A 50's Special is, IMO, the coolest guitar ever made.

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    You bring up some intersting points Patek.

    And you know it's funny that Patek is your screen name. There used to be a commericial by a local patek philippe dealer who liked owning a Patek to being the steward of an remarkable timepiece that would be past on through generations.

    I would say this is doubly true of a vintage Les Paul. Simply because there are a finite number of vintage les Pauls

    With that in mind, when I've considered a GT in the past originality was critical. And if I buy one in the future that would still be an essential factor. I don't want to start an argument about old growth this or tone woods or any of that. but if I wanted the best sounding les paul guitar I'd probably spend a few bucks traveling around to dealers playing every new and used Les Paul I could get my hands on.

    That's not the reason why I'd buy a vintage Les Paul. I already have a phenomenal sounding Les Paul. The only way I could get better tone is to be as talented and gifted as some of those great Les Paul wielding guitarists I admire.

    If I thought old growth wood had some tonal magic, I would have a replica built. Buying a vintage Les Paul is buying a part of history, at a time when America and popular music were at an inflection point. A guitar that has lasted at least a generation and has found its way into my hands. And now I am the steward of it for a time until it goes on to the next player That's why originality would be absolutely crucial.

    Good luck with your search
    Last edited by JPP-1; 10-10-17 at 12:55 PM.

  25. #25
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Hi Don thanks for the info and the pic... it looks absolutely stunning as it is, congrats on a fine piece. My dad was born in 53 so 53 would be a great year for me too as a tribute to him (although he plays very little compared to myself). Great stuff and thanks for your swift replies

  26. #26
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Hi JPP, indeed especially a vintage patek which again as per the 50s LPs, on the whole there are far far fewer vintage pateks around of a comparable nature to a 50s LP compared to the more mass produced pateks of today (they are still amazing though of course). Patek is probably the equivalent of Gibson of the watch world (or that might be rolex...? Or maybe fender is rolex haha).

    When I finally do get the funds to move on a 50s LP there will be that nag in my head; should I get a used 5110 worldtime patek instead for the same sort of figure? As that's the dream timepiece...

    Anyhow; many thanks for your response, I enjoyed your input and it certainly puts another angle on it; it is indeed a piece of rock and roll history.
    And probably 'cooler' thank a 5110 patek !

    THanks again for your help JPP

  27. #27
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    Hi JPP, indeed especially a vintage patek which again as per the 50s LPs, on the whole there are far far fewer vintage pateks around of a comparable nature to a 50s LP compared to the more mass produced pateks of today (they are still amazing though of course). Patek is probably the equivalent of Gibson of the watch world (or that might be rolex...? Or maybe fender is rolex haha).

    When I finally do get the funds to move on a 50s LP there will be that nag in my head; should I get a used 5110 worldtime patek instead for the same sort of figure? As that's the dream timepiece...

    Anyhow; many thanks for your response, I enjoyed your input and it certainly puts another angle on it; it is indeed a piece of rock and roll history.
    And probably 'cooler' thank a 5110 patek !

    THanks again for your help JPP
    Anytime. Patek. And yes the 5110 world time is a beast of a watch..

    But it's funny I always look at Gibson Les Pauls as having that iconic look and same instant window appeal as the Rolex Sub. Something about the binding on the LP and bezel on the Sub

    Maybe a vintage Lester would be akin to a Newman era Daytona.

    Anyway, as much as I like watches, I get far more enjoyment out of my guitars. So it wouldn't be much of a choice. The good news is if you buy a Patek Rolex or vintage Les Paul right you will probably not loose anything should you decide to go in a different direction.

    And that is another reason why originality is critical. Originality helps to autethicate the item is genuine. Once you start stripping that away it becomes less certain and more story.

    You definitely came to the right place though. The LPF is a great resource as you start navigating vintage waters. Hopefully we will see you posting a nicely checked original GT in the future.

  28. #28
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Thanks JP, you are absolutely right on watches vs guitars and dare I say amps. One decent sports rolex should be enough to help stave off the temptation when presented with the opportunity for a GT

    Agree with your analysis on the sub & LP !

    And thanks for your advice re the finish, makes perfect sense !! Definitely the way to go!

    Fingers crossed I can pull something together next year

    Regarding the patek - how about you have 2 GTs, and it's either a 3rd, or say a used annual calendar / aquanaugt dual time ?

    Or none of the above and a fiesta red early 60s strat? :p

  29. #29
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    Thanks JP, you are absolutely right on watches vs guitars and dare I say amps. One decent sports rolex should be enough to help stave off the temptation when presented with the opportunity for a GT

    Agree with your analysis on the sub & LP !

    And thanks for your advice re the finish, makes perfect sense !! Definitely the way to go!

    Fingers crossed I can pull something together next year

    Regarding the patek - how about you have 2 GTs, and it's either a 3rd, or say a used annual calendar / aquanaugt dual time ?

    Or none of the above and a fiesta red early 60s strat? :p

    Well, if you have 2 GTs then why not go for the Patek. Without getting too insane, I like the 5726 or 5164a.

    I love Strats, but today buying a good original vintage Strats is way too much of a crap shoot afaic. I'd stick with the GT and then go for a 335 if you want another vintage axe.

  30. #30

    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I got this one in 1980 and have not had it refinished.



    I think that shows how important the original Goldtop finish is to me.
    Tom, was that a conversion? I always thought it was a straight 57.

  31. #31

    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by dwagar View Post
    The action is fine, the intonation is quite good. I don't know if it's different than an ABR1 guitar to play, I don't really notice much of a difference switching from the trap to a wrap tail to an ABR1 guitar. For me the differences are more in neck size, pickup differences. Someone that spends more time comparing the differences would probably have more insight to that.

    I'm one of those guys that doesn't like converting an original. My '53 had a poor conversion to an ABR1 that I had the tech reverse when it was refinished. But other people don't have the same feeling about converting, it's your guitar, your decision. I was on the hunt for a '52 that I could afford, an early '53 was close enough. I was born in '52, I've wanted one since I was 16, lol.


    Nice! I just bought a 52 with a neck repair that was done years ago. Nothing else except the mojoaxe bridge is changed. Could never afford a straight one, but it is by far the best sounding guitar I have ever had. Would never refiin it. I gig so I am not a collector. I wanted THAT sound and now I have it. Struggled with the frets and considered refret but I am trying to adapt.

  32. #32
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    dwagar - Just seen your LP on my computer (i've been using my phone on this forum to date) and DAMN!!! what a fine piece - such good condition too for something that i'm sure you enjoy playing regularly. Congrats!

  33. #33
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by BSeneca View Post
    Tom, was that a conversion? I always thought it was a straight 57.
    A converted 56.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  34. #34
    Les Paul Forum Member dwagar's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by BSeneca View Post
    Nice! I just bought a 52 with a neck repair that was done years ago. Nothing else except the mojoaxe bridge is changed. Could never afford a straight one, but it is by far the best sounding guitar I have ever had. Would never refiin it. I gig so I am not a collector. I wanted THAT sound and now I have it. Struggled with the frets and considered refret but I am trying to adapt.
    I had the same struggle for awhile. I finally had the same guy that did the refin put frets on this guitar and my '57 Special. Neither guitar is collector quality, both are for gigging.
    - Don

    Originally Posted by reswot
    A 50's Special is, IMO, the coolest guitar ever made.

  35. #35

    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Quote Originally Posted by dwagar View Post
    I had the same struggle for awhile. I finally had the same guy that did the refin put frets on this guitar and my '57 Special. Neither guitar is collector quality, both are for gigging.
    Did it make a big difference? With the trapeze you already need to have a higher action, which I have adjusted to, but I thought with a bigger, higher fret this may compensate a little for the higher action

  36. #36
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Having to compensate for higher action is what I'd worry about (wouldn't accept), as it would ruin the experience for me and end up never getting played. That's my main fear. As I woukd hate to fly all the way to the USA to meet the guitar with the intention of purchasing then realising I don't like the way it plays and go back empty handed

  37. #37
    Les Paul Forum Member dwagar's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    I suppose higher frets compensate some for the action height. I just did a quick comparison, the '53 is slightly higher than I set my R9, not enough that I really notice it.

    But action is a personal preference thing. My '64 ES330 has about the lowest action i've ever seen, which is nice to play once in awhile, but I don't prefer that low a height. And I've played a couple of guitars from guys I consider really good players that have their action set higher than I like.
    - Don

    Originally Posted by reswot
    A 50's Special is, IMO, the coolest guitar ever made.

  38. #38

    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Just gigged my 52 last night and the action really isn't an issue. When I sit down and play on the couch or something it seems high, but I have zero issues plugged in and cranked. Plenty of sustain

  39. #39
    Les Paul Forum Member sidekick's Avatar
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    OP ... With all respect to the bona-fide USA vintage 50's/Burst dealers, IMO and because of where I'm assuming where you live, give Gary Winterflood in the UK a call ...

    https://www.vintageandrare.com/deale...avenue-Ltd-199

    He knows his stuff and is respected in the 'Burst world' on both sides of the Atlantic.


  40. #40
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    Re: How important to you is original finish on a 52:56 Goldtop?

    Thanks sidekick and others

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