Les Paul 59 or 57 blueprint / hardware spacing to make a 54-57 conversion

thin sissy said:

I just can't imagine what it's like to not love a vintage LP with P-90's. They're the perfect pickups IMHO :worm

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The OP owns TWO 50's LP with P-90's , so,we can assume he loves them too..

viking LP said:

The OP owns TWO 50's LP with P-90's , so,we can assume he loves them too..

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I must have missed something as he only mentions the 54. I see where he tried some others, but I understood he only has the one 54.

Big Al;277249[I said:

6]I must have missed something[/I] as he only mentions the 54. I see where he tried some others, but I understood he only has the one 54.

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I think you're not the only one .Here is the quote :

When i thought i would use my 54 for conversion , i did not choose to have it retoped as some do ,to have a beautiful top, i decided to keep the finish .
I could also have choosen to use my 55 ,which seems to have a one piece top and a tiger stripe under the paint but it is in better condition and the wrap tail sits lower than on the 54 , so i decided it might be better to use the 54 that is in less good condition .

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Sheesh – some of you guys are saints.

Look at the OP’s earlier threads, which have a recurring theme - him wanting to drill into an unbroken original guitar. First a tuneomatic on a ’65 Jr, then a stop tailpiece on a trapeze 60s 335, and now this.. What’s next – converting a fifties burst to a P90 goldtop?? :bigal

I have no sympathy for these deluded experiments and the attention seeking exclamation mark ridden bizarro ranting posts that go with it.

So please go ahead mister, bucker that poor sucker, but don’t come back whining after you have found out that your drilled out goldtop doesn’t make you look or sound like Jimmy Page, or whatever you are trying to achieve.

C’est déprimant. :##

viking LP said:

I think you're not the only one .Here is the quote :

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There ya go! Thank you, I did miss that and as 55 is my birth year, I have always had an attraction to them. I love P90 Les Pauls and have used many over my long musical adventures. An all gold 55 has been the unobtainable dream guitar for me.

So the OP reached out to me with a question that deserves some thought. Are there any dealers with decent stock who ARE doing CITES paperwork? Mark's has apparently declined, and I just emailed Dave and he's given up on the process. Can we help someone out so they don't hack up a perfectly good guitar?

Tom Wittrock said:

Consider sending it to a luthier who is skilled at this.
Where do you live?

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What he said ^^^^^

:dude::dude::dude:

DrRobert said:

So the OP reached out to me with a question that deserves some thought. Are there any dealers with decent stock who ARE doing CITES paperwork? Mark's has apparently declined, and I just emailed Dave and he's given up on the process. Can we help someone out so they don't hack up a perfectly good guitar?

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Perhaps Gruhn or the other Nashville vintage guys? :hmm

Arch D. Bunker said:

Sheesh – some of you guys are saints.

Look at the OP’s earlier threads, which have a recurring theme - him wanting to drill into an unbroken original guitar. First a tuneomatic on a ’65 Jr, then a stop tailpiece on a trapeze 60s 335, and now this.. What’s next – converting a fifties burst to a P90 goldtop?? :bigal

I have no sympathy for these deluded experiments and the attention seeking exclamation mark ridden bizarro ranting posts that go with it.

So please go ahead mister, bucker that poor sucker, but don’t come back whining after you have found out that your drilled out goldtop doesn’t make you look or sound like Jimmy Page, or whatever you are trying to achieve.

C’est déprimant. :##

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They are HIS guitars, HE paid for them, and he want's HIS guitar to suit HIS needs, so he can do whatever HE thinks will satisfy HIM.
I too don't like the idea of a reasonably good example of a vintage guitar beeing modified irreversably to sooth the players needs, (you know the guitars of SRV, Avin Lee, EvH, Zappa, neill young, etc etc.. right?) but again: it's HIS guitars we are discussing and he can do whatever he frikkin' wants with 'm.
I'm sure he (OP) is fully aware what happens with resale value after mods..


And we can certainly give our opinions and agree or disagree..

But acting like were the Vintage Guitar Police and telling him he must not do it.. damn..

See it like this: 1 less original 54 LP in the world, so the 54's just become rarer, which in turn will make the remaining fully original ones command higher prices.

:##:salude

Arch D. Bunker said:

Sheesh – some of you guys are saints.

Look at the OP’s earlier threads, which have a recurring theme - him wanting to drill into an unbroken original guitar. First a tuneomatic on a ’65 Jr, then a stop tailpiece on a trapeze 60s 335, and now this.. What’s next – converting a fifties burst to a P90 goldtop?? :bigal

I have no sympathy for these deluded experiments and the attention seeking exclamation mark ridden bizarro ranting posts that go with it.

So please go ahead mister, bucker that poor sucker, but don’t come back whining after you have found out that your drilled out goldtop doesn’t make you look or sound like Jimmy Page, or whatever you are trying to achieve.

C’est déprimant. :##

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If i remember well , it's not the first time you come to piss on my gate, as i remember your posts in some of my topics !
It is so easy to spit on other people when you don't know them or their life !
And as far as i know , speaking and asking questions about things is not doing it , you don't even know what i did to my guitars !
When did i say that i would play like Jimmy page drilling a gold top ?
You are full of venom and scorn but does it make you feel stronger or sleep better to insult other people ?
you are a poor soul who feels strong behind your keyboard at home but would you speak like that in front of other persons ?
i doubt about it !

I have quite a few vintage guitars and never permanently modified one for the moment , neither did i do it on a more recent one !
yes, i asked about a possible ABR1 i could install on a 65 SG several years ago and said that i would either put back the strings on the short stock vibrato better than wrapping them on the wrap tail or think about modding it to abr1 and stop tail but i never modified it but anchored the trings on the vibrato and have had a much better tone like that !
The thing is that i buy guitars to play them and when there is something i am not satisfied with ,about the tone , i try to improve it !
I don't really like the heavy weight wrap tail they used on the SG's after 63 or so, i much prefer the light weight wrap tail they used before that and the ones on the 50's Les paul !
At that time when i said i didn't like the wrap tail, i was speaking about those heavy weight wrap tails, as much as i don't like the heavy weight stop tails, because of the tone they give ( except sometime on some guitars which might lack low end / low mids without them ) !
Light weight wrap or stop make the guitar sing much more and have a airier tone with less low mid / low end than the heavy weight ones !
And yes , i also asked about tone changes when modifying a post 65 335 with trapeze to stop tail and abr1 - especialy as it costs much less( 3 to 5 times less !) than a pre 65 one and because all the recent ones ( i mean, the few ones i could find in the shops here !) i had tried here sounded like cardboard compared to vintage ones !

But i hve not done this mod but i don't play that guitar as i don't really like the trapeze , so i am not sure keeping a guitar stock and not playing it , is better than playing one modified to stop tail and abr1 !
Guitars ( especialy expensive guitars above 2000 euros ) are more difficult to sell in France than in USA , as the guitar market is really small but i don't want to sell it for cheaper than what i paid for it , so modifying it would have been a solution !
I could sell it to buy a pre 65 but they are much more expensive ( the few here , when you can find some,sell for more than 20k whereas i had paid 6,5 k for this one ).
There are enough mid to late 60's Es335 for people who want them stock !

I have seen a 2016 CC Donna for sale in USA that could be interesting but the fingerboard has a weird color !
It seems to be for sale for one year now, so i wonder why it has not been sold yet !
The problem is to be sure it sounds good ,whereas obviously when you ask the seller ,he always says it sounds great !
I liked Marksguitarloft as he has some tone reports in his listings but he doesn't want to bother dealing with Cites documents !
The few who are ok to deal with Cites document , usualy ask for 75 to 100$ but a seller asked me 450 $ for the Cites document ,+ another 125$ for the mother of pearl inlay , whereas i read there is no need for it as the mother of pearl is not listed in Cites or Esa !

There is a guitar i would have liked to buy from him about a year and a half ago, as i liked the top and the tone report was saying it was sounding really good but it has been sold unfortunately and since, i look for that guitar and i even had posted here saying that if the guy who had bought it ,was interested to sell it , i would buy it from him .

Here are some tops and colors i really love .
I also love Dark burst and tobaco burst, washed cherry .

One of the pictures here ,with two guitars , is the original Donna i believe , the one on the right i think ( the best of the two ) .
I love the wild wide flames , when it is not perfectly quarter sawn /symetrical .
Those wide flame tops are not that easy to find ( and without some big weird mineral streaks / flecks , not sure how you call it ) .

My head hurts.

Electricsky, I do understand how you feel. I lived for many years in Europe, a long time ago when there were even fewer opportunities to see, hear and try vintage American guitars.

So I think you will find that coming over to the US in person to shop for a guitar is really the best way for you to find what you want. It will be much easier and you will have many more choices.

I've said this before: if there had been all the reissues and research into the vintage sound had already been done to the extent it has today, I may never have embarked on the vintage craze back in the 70's to the extent that I did.

I have been surprised at how good the modern reproductions actually are. They are really very very good!

I hope you find what you want, it is definitely out there for you!

Might be worth emailing CME about CITES. They're much bigger players in Gibson land than they used to be and do work with international clients. Ask for Andy and tell him Dr. Bob sent you...

electricsky said:

One of the pictures here ,with two guitars , is the original Donna i believe , the one on the right i think ( the best of the two ) .
I love the wild wide flames , when it is not perfectly quarter sawn /symetrical .
Those wide flame tops are not that easy to find ( and without some big weird mineral streaks / flecks , not sure how you call it ) .

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The last photo, with two Les Pauls is mismarked [as you guessed].
That's the Donna Proto with the real Donna. :ganz

The real Donna is absolutely breathtaking really stands out next to the copy. To my eyes the color looks good but thats were it ends IMO for the copy.

The original Donna is beautiful, îd be curious to hear how it sounds !
That said , i could easily live with a very nice reissue with the type of tops on those pictures ,as long as it sounds really good !
I don't understand the fact some criticize the fact i look for a nice top ,when saying it is about tone or about uber top , why couldn't it be about both ?
Don't the burst collectors look for some great tops as well as great tones ?
obviously ,i could live with an original burst that sounds great and that is not beautiful and that is what i would have tried to get with a conversion but when buying a reissue , i don't see why i couldn't try to find both in the same guitar !
Some don't like the flame tops but since i fell in love with Les Paul's and discovered those beautiful tops , i have alawys loved those beautiful tops that make those guitars so original and different from the others .
that is why i want a great top that is not common / ordinary , it would be my guitar and nobody would have the same !