mustachio
Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 178
So, this has been a long time coming. For the sake of this discussion, and because this is the Les Paul Forum, Fender or variants of Fender single coiled equipped guitars are disregarded, loathed and will not be considered in this thread. (And before you mention the P90, yes, technically a single coil, but definitely not thin or Fendery.)
I searched and searched and really couldn't find answers to my questions concerning Les Pauls and 5E3 Tweed Deluxe amps. Specifically, it's impossible to find any videos of the newest Fender handwired tweed Reissues and Les Pauls. I mean, I found threads, but not very informative or detailed in comparison to anything, let alone to another 5E3.
Some backround: I've had Tungsten Cortez, Victoria 20112, two 2007 Fender Tweed Deluxe Reissues, Cox 5E3, Greer Underdog 15, Clapton Tremolux and finally Fender Edge Deluxe. So, a lot of 5E3s, tweaks and variants with all sorts of speakers. Yeah. I have problems. First world problems.
I have two guitars. TH58 with Wizzes and a '63 SG Jr. Beefy and thick but very clear and articulate.
What I can offer you in discussion is a detailed comparison of the Tungsten Cortez vs my 2017 Fender '57 Custom Deluxe in feel and sound. Since there are great Tungsten videos (especially with earphones), I can reference sounds easily. Feel is a different, if not completely subjective. I have a good touch, and can really play with restraint, therefore discern an amp's personality. Unlike, the chord strummers or Em pentatonic savants that feel the need to verbalize gauge of strings they use (hypocritical, I know. But, this is a forum. Language is the medium. Shut up in your YouTube videos...I digress. Sorry. I'm done).
The Tungsten YouTube demos have two major things sonically different than the Tweed. First, the Cortez is refined like the Tweed but is a little more wooly, with just a little more grind to it. This could be because of the 12AX7 in the Cortez. Second, the T12Q speaker has slightly more chimier cleans, but the bass isn't as tight as the Tweed.
Feel is very similar, but the new tweed Deluxe doesn't sag AS much the Cortez. The Tweed is much more refined all around. It's well balanced as far as highs to the lows, and is much, much louder. The volume on the Tweed is gradual and doesn't go 0-100 mph on 3. Neither does the Tungsten. I have it set on 1.5 or 2 on Instrument Input 1, Tone on 9-10, and unused volume on 10. Which leads me to the ghost volume interaction the Cortez has MUCH more dramatic effect when used from 6-12 on the unused volume channel. The Tweed does have an effect but it's more gradual and doesn't pull out as much mids as the Cortez. Which I like, either way...I always use this trick, especially with Les Pauls. With my SG's single P90, I don't engage the ghost volume. Both run extremely quiet.
The main difference, with most high end 5E3s, the driver. My favorite speakers were the Celestion Blue, Tungsten T12Q by Weber of which can ONLY be purchased from Tungsten and the new Eminence Special Design speaker here. I was worried about this new Eminence because I hate, HATE, I MEAN HATE the Legend that comes with the Victoria. This Eminence's saving grace is that it's an Alnico and it's much more efficient. I bet it's a Tonker with an Alnico magnet relabeled. It's great. I love the Blue in EL84 amps, but a 5E3 is too much amp for Blues and you have to dial them in just right. They sound great, but Les Paul + Blue/5E3 sacrifices flexibility. As stated before the T12Q sounds incredible clean, holds together well with a Les Paul and has a nice raspiness but that raspiness cannot be dialed out. But, it's not as loud. Add a light OD pedal to either will tighten the bass up, but it's a fine line. The Special Deisign just holds up a little better all around and you have more travel with OD pedals. However, it might be because the speaker is new and therefore a little stiff. Its warmer than all the others that I've tried as well. It seemed muffled at first, but I left the standby off for a couple of hours without playing and let the electrons find their settling point.
I used an Xotic BB for while and then a Greer Lightspeed (a super refined Tubescreamer). The BB has a bass level and I dialed that way back, eased off the gain, and took down those lows and used it as a clean boost. Meh. Didn't like it. Choked the Tweed out of it. The Lightspeed, however, sharpened things up with the Les Paul and made that speaker sustain a tad easier. I also used an Earthquaker Devices Speaker Cranker, ClinchFX EP-Pre and a Greer Southland Harmonic Overdrive. EQD sucked with humbuckers. P90s, meh. Southland just adds another level of saturation that's redundant that the 5E3 has and also flattens out the speaker. The ClinchFx is used after the Lightspeed for solos. So, Lightspeed to tighten up the amp (or not). EP Pre for solos on top of the Lightspeed (or not).
Couple more things: I added a Dr. Z Brake Lite. I love it with the Special Design. Never liked it with a Blue (in any amp) or T12Q. Just changed it the other speakers breakup points too much. It's funny, it takes away the clarity of my Scumback H75-PVC as well, but keeps the Special Design sounding the same. I was surprised. I've tried a Swart Night Light Jr. before and liked the off/on switch, but hated the dial for the attenuation level. Dr. Z's 4 positions are all usable and a must to protect your ears.
I am so psyched that there's no tube rattle. I absolutely love that. My M12s EF86 drives me crazy. All the tubes sound great and for the first time I do not need NOS glass.
I love the new old Fender Deluxe logo with Corona, CA underneath it (same vain as Fullerton, CA). The Tweed isn't too orange nor too yellow.
I prefer the cage over the tubes to protect the cord and Brake Lite cord as well. I also forgot or remembered how alive the cabinet is.
Compared to my Dr. Z M12 (NOT studio cab) combo cab, it's much more alive and resonant. Dr. Z's cabs are well built, but too heavy and it absorbs the bass too much. Unless it's a 2X12" combo, but you will have tube rattle.
I was was so close to buying another Cortez, but there were none to be had. The Amp House had a Germino Deluxe, but by all accounts is a straight up 5E3, plus a Blue. I wanted that new Special Design speaker, proper tubes, and Fender name. I like the fact that this the second generation Fender 5E3s. Compared to the old ones with the Italian Jensens, crappy OTs, terrible volume taper, and two 12AX7s, these are much more usable and less finicky. If I were to guess, I'd bet they took notice of the voltages of the transformers that Clark and Tungsten uses and speced them out to Mercury Magnetics (or MM now carries them at a premium, don't know). The little guys did all the hard work, proved there is always someone that will buy a good Deluxe to Fender and Fender finally comes out with a Tweed to rival a good old one. I'm glad there were no Tungstens available, but feel sorry for those little guys. But, I admit it, I wanted the brand name. But, by all means, don't turn your noses up to Tungsten. I personally always had a tough time dialing in the humbuckers. I'd like a setting one day, then a different setting the next. They'd sound great, but I couldn't put my finger on it. So far, that being the caveat, so far, the Custom Deluxe has been consistent since I've had it.
Thats my story...for now. Experiences, observations and disagreements welcome. Good talk. See you out there.
I searched and searched and really couldn't find answers to my questions concerning Les Pauls and 5E3 Tweed Deluxe amps. Specifically, it's impossible to find any videos of the newest Fender handwired tweed Reissues and Les Pauls. I mean, I found threads, but not very informative or detailed in comparison to anything, let alone to another 5E3.
Some backround: I've had Tungsten Cortez, Victoria 20112, two 2007 Fender Tweed Deluxe Reissues, Cox 5E3, Greer Underdog 15, Clapton Tremolux and finally Fender Edge Deluxe. So, a lot of 5E3s, tweaks and variants with all sorts of speakers. Yeah. I have problems. First world problems.
I have two guitars. TH58 with Wizzes and a '63 SG Jr. Beefy and thick but very clear and articulate.
What I can offer you in discussion is a detailed comparison of the Tungsten Cortez vs my 2017 Fender '57 Custom Deluxe in feel and sound. Since there are great Tungsten videos (especially with earphones), I can reference sounds easily. Feel is a different, if not completely subjective. I have a good touch, and can really play with restraint, therefore discern an amp's personality. Unlike, the chord strummers or Em pentatonic savants that feel the need to verbalize gauge of strings they use (hypocritical, I know. But, this is a forum. Language is the medium. Shut up in your YouTube videos...I digress. Sorry. I'm done).
The Tungsten YouTube demos have two major things sonically different than the Tweed. First, the Cortez is refined like the Tweed but is a little more wooly, with just a little more grind to it. This could be because of the 12AX7 in the Cortez. Second, the T12Q speaker has slightly more chimier cleans, but the bass isn't as tight as the Tweed.
Feel is very similar, but the new tweed Deluxe doesn't sag AS much the Cortez. The Tweed is much more refined all around. It's well balanced as far as highs to the lows, and is much, much louder. The volume on the Tweed is gradual and doesn't go 0-100 mph on 3. Neither does the Tungsten. I have it set on 1.5 or 2 on Instrument Input 1, Tone on 9-10, and unused volume on 10. Which leads me to the ghost volume interaction the Cortez has MUCH more dramatic effect when used from 6-12 on the unused volume channel. The Tweed does have an effect but it's more gradual and doesn't pull out as much mids as the Cortez. Which I like, either way...I always use this trick, especially with Les Pauls. With my SG's single P90, I don't engage the ghost volume. Both run extremely quiet.
The main difference, with most high end 5E3s, the driver. My favorite speakers were the Celestion Blue, Tungsten T12Q by Weber of which can ONLY be purchased from Tungsten and the new Eminence Special Design speaker here. I was worried about this new Eminence because I hate, HATE, I MEAN HATE the Legend that comes with the Victoria. This Eminence's saving grace is that it's an Alnico and it's much more efficient. I bet it's a Tonker with an Alnico magnet relabeled. It's great. I love the Blue in EL84 amps, but a 5E3 is too much amp for Blues and you have to dial them in just right. They sound great, but Les Paul + Blue/5E3 sacrifices flexibility. As stated before the T12Q sounds incredible clean, holds together well with a Les Paul and has a nice raspiness but that raspiness cannot be dialed out. But, it's not as loud. Add a light OD pedal to either will tighten the bass up, but it's a fine line. The Special Deisign just holds up a little better all around and you have more travel with OD pedals. However, it might be because the speaker is new and therefore a little stiff. Its warmer than all the others that I've tried as well. It seemed muffled at first, but I left the standby off for a couple of hours without playing and let the electrons find their settling point.
I used an Xotic BB for while and then a Greer Lightspeed (a super refined Tubescreamer). The BB has a bass level and I dialed that way back, eased off the gain, and took down those lows and used it as a clean boost. Meh. Didn't like it. Choked the Tweed out of it. The Lightspeed, however, sharpened things up with the Les Paul and made that speaker sustain a tad easier. I also used an Earthquaker Devices Speaker Cranker, ClinchFX EP-Pre and a Greer Southland Harmonic Overdrive. EQD sucked with humbuckers. P90s, meh. Southland just adds another level of saturation that's redundant that the 5E3 has and also flattens out the speaker. The ClinchFx is used after the Lightspeed for solos. So, Lightspeed to tighten up the amp (or not). EP Pre for solos on top of the Lightspeed (or not).
Couple more things: I added a Dr. Z Brake Lite. I love it with the Special Design. Never liked it with a Blue (in any amp) or T12Q. Just changed it the other speakers breakup points too much. It's funny, it takes away the clarity of my Scumback H75-PVC as well, but keeps the Special Design sounding the same. I was surprised. I've tried a Swart Night Light Jr. before and liked the off/on switch, but hated the dial for the attenuation level. Dr. Z's 4 positions are all usable and a must to protect your ears.
I am so psyched that there's no tube rattle. I absolutely love that. My M12s EF86 drives me crazy. All the tubes sound great and for the first time I do not need NOS glass.
I love the new old Fender Deluxe logo with Corona, CA underneath it (same vain as Fullerton, CA). The Tweed isn't too orange nor too yellow.
I prefer the cage over the tubes to protect the cord and Brake Lite cord as well. I also forgot or remembered how alive the cabinet is.
Compared to my Dr. Z M12 (NOT studio cab) combo cab, it's much more alive and resonant. Dr. Z's cabs are well built, but too heavy and it absorbs the bass too much. Unless it's a 2X12" combo, but you will have tube rattle.
I was was so close to buying another Cortez, but there were none to be had. The Amp House had a Germino Deluxe, but by all accounts is a straight up 5E3, plus a Blue. I wanted that new Special Design speaker, proper tubes, and Fender name. I like the fact that this the second generation Fender 5E3s. Compared to the old ones with the Italian Jensens, crappy OTs, terrible volume taper, and two 12AX7s, these are much more usable and less finicky. If I were to guess, I'd bet they took notice of the voltages of the transformers that Clark and Tungsten uses and speced them out to Mercury Magnetics (or MM now carries them at a premium, don't know). The little guys did all the hard work, proved there is always someone that will buy a good Deluxe to Fender and Fender finally comes out with a Tweed to rival a good old one. I'm glad there were no Tungstens available, but feel sorry for those little guys. But, I admit it, I wanted the brand name. But, by all means, don't turn your noses up to Tungsten. I personally always had a tough time dialing in the humbuckers. I'd like a setting one day, then a different setting the next. They'd sound great, but I couldn't put my finger on it. So far, that being the caveat, so far, the Custom Deluxe has been consistent since I've had it.
Thats my story...for now. Experiences, observations and disagreements welcome. Good talk. See you out there.
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