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2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

RobertD

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
467
Would someone please tell me if this has the TH Plastics/Hardware.
Thanks for your help.

97648_lg3[1].jpg
 

asapmaz

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
302
Your link was a little bit too blurry to tell.
I went to the Wildwood website and found the exact 2017 LP Standard for a clearer view.
I confirm that the plastic and the hardware are indeed TH specs.
No doubt about it.
 

asapmaz

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
302
Btw, these 2017's appear to look great!

Somebody really obsessive seems to be calling the shots at Gibson.

Aside from the TH plastics and hardware,
- the top carve has improved (much more noticeable dish);
- the tailpiece angle has improved (it's actually a little angled now);
- the cutaway depth has improved (deeper now).

Wow, the templates used for the TH's of 2015 and 2016 did not even have these appointments.
 

sws1

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,846
Btw, these 2017's appear to look great!

Somebody really obsessive seems to be calling the shots at Gibson.

Aside from the TH plastics and hardware,
- the top carve has improved (much more noticeable dish);
- the tailpiece angle has improved (it's actually a little angled now);
- the cutaway depth has improved (deeper now).

Wow, the templates used for the TH's of 2015 and 2016 did not even have these appointments.

They do look great. The top carve is noticeably deeper. However, I a/b'd a bunch of the pics on WW's site to see if I can spot the cutaway difference. I could definitely see the difference between the 2016 Standard Historic and the 2017s, but not with the TH / CC guitars and 2017. I compared numerous guitars (as best I could given that WW's photos are every so slightly different) and I couldn't see the change. Maybe it's for the best I don't.

I also noticed that there is a slightly larger gap between the end of the fretboard and the neck pickup ring. The most recent CC's have that gap (those made this year), while the CC's from last year don't have the same gap.

Of course, I won't swear by any of this as lighting can play tricks on the eyes.
 

jens5

New member
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
35
Please forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference with TH vs historic plastic and how does one tell the difference?
 

markguitar

Les Paul Forum Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
2,375
They do look great. The top carve is noticeably deeper. However, I a/b'd a bunch of the pics on WW's site to see if I can spot the cutaway difference. I could definitely see the difference between the 2016 Standard Historic and the 2017s, but not with the TH / CC guitars and 2017. I compared numerous guitars (as best I could given that WW's photos are every so slightly different) and I couldn't see the change. Maybe it's for the best I don't.

I also noticed that there is a slightly larger gap between the end of the fretboard and the neck pickup ring. The most recent CC's have that gap (those made this year), while the CC's from last year don't have the same gap.

Of course, I won't swear by any of this as lighting can play tricks on the eyes.

The cutaway is deeper as it is on all True Historic models. I have some 2017's and i have made measurements.
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
Btw, these 2017's appear to look great!

Somebody really obsessive seems to be calling the shots at Gibson.

Aside from the TH plastics and hardware,
- the top carve has improved (much more noticeable dish);
- the tailpiece angle has improved (it's actually a little angled now);
- the cutaway depth has improved (deeper now).

Wow, the templates used for the TH's of 2015 and 2016 did not even have these appointments.


Charlie was good enough to post facts about the 2017 custom standards in a thread titled separating fact from rumor.

-It was already mentioned that they are using the top carve of a specific Burst (supposedly of Carmelita) rather than an average of Burst tops. While this might be more aesthetically pleasing to some as one of the more pronounced top carves, it is not any more or less accurate unless all Bursts have the same top carve as the Carmelita
-Improved tailpiece? Do you have any facts that support this or is this a phantom improvement like the cutaway depth because the tailpiece doesn't look any more or less accurate from what I can see
-The TH and 2017 custom standard cutaway depth is the same.


So given the title of this thread I'm curious as to your post. Do you not think it beneficial to keep a thread dedicated to the facts, factual without this type of BS or embellishment. And afaic, while I'm sure Gibson has some good people their now Several of their key people, the people that actually built the custom shop to what it is today are no longer there. So saying somebody obsessing over the details is now calling the shots - well to that I say, Wow.
 
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Top Gun

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
1,523
The top carve is subtle, but noticeable. There is also a slight gab between the end of the fingerboard and rhythm pick-up ring.

IMG_1480-X2.jpg


IMG_1483-X2.jpg
 

asapmaz

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
302
Charlie was good enough to post facts about the 2017 custom standards in a thread titled separating fact from rumor.

-It was already mentioned that they are using the top carve of a specific Burst (supposedly of Carmelita) rather than an average of Burst tops. While this might be more aesthetically pleasing to some as one of the more pronounced top carves, it is not any more or less accurate unless all Bursts have the same top carve as the Carmelita
-Improved tailpiece? Do you have any facts that support this or is this a phantom improvement like the cutaway depth because the tailpiece doesn't look any more or less accurate from what I can see
-The TH and 2017 custom standard cutaway depth is the same.


So given the title of this thread I'm curious as to your post. Do you not think it beneficial to keep a thread dedicated to the facts, factual without this type of BS or embellishment. And afaic, while I'm sure Gibson has some good people their now Several of their key people, the people that actually built the custom shop to what it is today are no longer there. So saying somebody obsessing over the details is now calling the shots - well to that I say, Wow.

Hey, please take a chill pill. I'm sorry if my post came across as embellishment or even BS to you. My God. I was merely stating that some of the details of the 2017's look really good and those in charge of such details have clearly listened to what the consumers of these high-priced instruments have wanted for a long time, basically replica-like details. What is it that seems to bother you so much? I was actually complimenting the Custom Shop for their products.
All I said was, to me, some of the details on the 2017 look even more accurate than what I have seen on the last couple years' TH's. The top carve certainly looks deeper than the TH's, the tailpieces look angled, and the cutaway appears to be an improvement over the 2016 Standards. I agree that most TH's have cutouts that are correct and deep, if you browse the entire internets, you will notice that some TH's actually do not and are closer to the 2016 Standards. Whether that is a result of the handwork that goes into building these guitars or the templates, my point was merely an observation and was not intended to anger anyone. If you are so deeply troubled by my post, I suggest you ignore it.
 

slammintone

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2001
Messages
2,003
Top Gun, my 2017 59 Standard has that gap as well. I wonder if it's a standard feature. I've seen it in pic's of some real Bursts and always thought it looked
 
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JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
Hey, please take a chill pill. I'm sorry if my post came across as embellishment or even BS to you. My God. I was merely stating that some of the details of the 2017's look really good and those in charge of such details have clearly listened to what the consumers of these high-priced instruments have wanted for a long time, basically replica-like details. What is it that seems to bother you so much? I was actually complimenting the Custom Shop for their products.
All I said was, to me, some of the details on the 2017 look even more accurate than what I have seen on the last couple years' TH's. The top carve certainly looks deeper than the TH's, the tailpieces look angled, and the cutaway appears to be an improvement over the 2016 Standards. I agree that most TH's have cutouts that are correct and deep, if you browse the entire internets, you will notice that some TH's actually do not and are closer to the 2016 Standards. Whether that is a result of the handwork that goes into building these guitars or the templates, my point was merely an observation and was not intended to anger anyone. If you are so deeply troubled by my post, I suggest you ignore it.

I do not find your post deeply troubling. I did find it slightly erroneous and misleading particularly given the title of the thread: Facts which means facts, not rumors perceptions etc.

I've never seen a TH cutout that was shallow. Even so, your post clearly implied that all TH cutouts are shallow or less correct. I have seen slight differences in TH top carves however so perhaps that is what you are referring to.

I have no idea what this more accurate tailpiece you are referring to is. Again is this data you gathered from multiple examples of both or was it listed on a spec sheet that you're are privy too?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad that despite the recent departures of key personnel that Gibson seems committed to continue the manufacture of high quality "historic" guitars and I share your enthusiasm for them. I said in a previous post that these are the historic "standard" Les Pauls that imho Gibson should have launched in 2015 instead of the very optimistically priced True Historics.

However, sharing enthusiasm for the new historics is one thing, bullet pointing non factual personal perceptions as if your quoting from a Gibson spec sheet and suggesting that Gibson is now more interested in accuracy right after the departure of some of their best people is another. I think you would know the difference. Then again, maybe you're doing your best Cliff Claven impersonation and I'm just missing the joke.

Apologies if my being a stickler for accuracy offends you but I think there's more than enough BS speculation and fake facts on many of these forums, No need to add any especially to a thread expressly striving to provide factual information.
 
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Ronsonman

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Dec 3, 2016
Messages
44
Here's my take on getting rid of the top 2 custom shop guys. Gibson plans on cutting corners or doing something alot more cheaper than
what the 2 experienced experts would go along with. Been there, seen it happen before. (not at gibson) It will come to light eventually.
 

JPP-1

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Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
Top Gun, my 2017 59 Standard has that gap as well. I wonder if it's a standard feature. I've seen it in pic's of some real Bursts and always thought it looked cool:2cool

That's a gorgoeus looking Les Paul Slammitone. Great shot ot it too

I never noticed the gap until you mentioned it but now that you did I haven't seen a gap that extended on any of the bursts I just looked through on serialburst. Though it wouldn't surprise me if there were. Here is a random sampling of some of the photos of 59 bursts I looked through that had decent close ups of the gap.



Not that I think the gap matters but it is an interesting observation.
 

asapmaz

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
302
Gaps on bursts are everywhere.
Type in Mike Slubowsky 1960 burst if you want to see a gap.
Take a look at Goldie, too.
And, probably the most famous burst with a gap, Pearly Gates.
These are just three off the top of my head.
P.S., there's a burst with a gap so big, they actually had to put a piece of plastic in the gap to make it look better.
 

slammintone

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Jul 19, 2001
Messages
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0-2192



Hope the pictures show what I'm talking about. I've seen it on a few Bursts in Beauty of the Burst as well.

Sorry, for whatever reason Photobucket went tits up on me.
 
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ONEHERO

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
219
when you guys say that the top carve different - what do you mean? Is it more pronounced or more flat? they seem flatter
 
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Melodyman

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
191
The differences:

-The top is not "double carved" but they are now using a more dramatic profile scanned from a well-known original 59.

2017%20Les%20Paul%20Standard-X2.jpg


This is the real head scratcher for me. After years of reissues and repeated boasts of meticulously copying the originals to the finest detail, why has it taken so song for them to actually check out and adopt the dish carve profile of the originals? One can simply look at pictures of them and see the differences so it makes ya wonder why they didnt see this too?? There has been so much variation in the different carves this should have been standardised years ago ... same for the cutaway access and the PU covers.. They have gotten so close but still cant seem to get the whole thing as accurate as they advertise they have.. Oh well..
 
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