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  1. #41
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Would someone please tell me if this has the TH Plastics/Hardware.
    Thanks for your help.

    97648_lg3[1].jpg

  2. #42
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Your link was a little bit too blurry to tell.
    I went to the Wildwood website and found the exact 2017 LP Standard for a clearer view.
    I confirm that the plastic and the hardware are indeed TH specs.
    No doubt about it.

  3. #43
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Btw, these 2017's appear to look great!

    Somebody really obsessive seems to be calling the shots at Gibson.

    Aside from the TH plastics and hardware,
    - the top carve has improved (much more noticeable dish);
    - the tailpiece angle has improved (it's actually a little angled now);
    - the cutaway depth has improved (deeper now).

    Wow, the templates used for the TH's of 2015 and 2016 did not even have these appointments.

  4. #44
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Thanks for the help.

  5. #45
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by asapmaz View Post
    Btw, these 2017's appear to look great!

    Somebody really obsessive seems to be calling the shots at Gibson.

    Aside from the TH plastics and hardware,
    - the top carve has improved (much more noticeable dish);
    - the tailpiece angle has improved (it's actually a little angled now);
    - the cutaway depth has improved (deeper now).

    Wow, the templates used for the TH's of 2015 and 2016 did not even have these appointments.
    They do look great. The top carve is noticeably deeper. However, I a/b'd a bunch of the pics on WW's site to see if I can spot the cutaway difference. I could definitely see the difference between the 2016 Standard Historic and the 2017s, but not with the TH / CC guitars and 2017. I compared numerous guitars (as best I could given that WW's photos are every so slightly different) and I couldn't see the change. Maybe it's for the best I don't.

    I also noticed that there is a slightly larger gap between the end of the fretboard and the neck pickup ring. The most recent CC's have that gap (those made this year), while the CC's from last year don't have the same gap.

    Of course, I won't swear by any of this as lighting can play tricks on the eyes.

  6. #46
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Please forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference with TH vs historic plastic and how does one tell the difference?

  7. #47

    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    They do look great. The top carve is noticeably deeper. However, I a/b'd a bunch of the pics on WW's site to see if I can spot the cutaway difference. I could definitely see the difference between the 2016 Standard Historic and the 2017s, but not with the TH / CC guitars and 2017. I compared numerous guitars (as best I could given that WW's photos are every so slightly different) and I couldn't see the change. Maybe it's for the best I don't.

    I also noticed that there is a slightly larger gap between the end of the fretboard and the neck pickup ring. The most recent CC's have that gap (those made this year), while the CC's from last year don't have the same gap.

    Of course, I won't swear by any of this as lighting can play tricks on the eyes.
    The cutaway is deeper as it is on all True Historic models. I have some 2017's and i have made measurements.

  8. #48
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by asapmaz View Post
    Btw, these 2017's appear to look great!

    Somebody really obsessive seems to be calling the shots at Gibson.

    Aside from the TH plastics and hardware,
    - the top carve has improved (much more noticeable dish);
    - the tailpiece angle has improved (it's actually a little angled now);
    - the cutaway depth has improved (deeper now).

    Wow, the templates used for the TH's of 2015 and 2016 did not even have these appointments.

    Charlie was good enough to post facts about the 2017 custom standards in a thread titled separating fact from rumor.

    -It was already mentioned that they are using the top carve of a specific Burst (supposedly of Carmelita) rather than an average of Burst tops. While this might be more aesthetically pleasing to some as one of the more pronounced top carves, it is not any more or less accurate unless all Bursts have the same top carve as the Carmelita
    -Improved tailpiece? Do you have any facts that support this or is this a phantom improvement like the cutaway depth because the tailpiece doesn't look any more or less accurate from what I can see
    -The TH and 2017 custom standard cutaway depth is the same.


    So given the title of this thread I'm curious as to your post. Do you not think it beneficial to keep a thread dedicated to the facts, factual without this type of BS or embellishment. And afaic, while I'm sure Gibson has some good people their now Several of their key people, the people that actually built the custom shop to what it is today are no longer there. So saying somebody obsessing over the details is now calling the shots - well to that I say, Wow.
    Last edited by JPP-1; 06-26-17 at 06:00 AM.

  9. #49
    Les Paul Forum Member Top Gun's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    The top carve is subtle, but noticeable. There is also a slight gab between the end of the fingerboard and rhythm pick-up ring.




  10. #50
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    Charlie was good enough to post facts about the 2017 custom standards in a thread titled separating fact from rumor.

    -It was already mentioned that they are using the top carve of a specific Burst (supposedly of Carmelita) rather than an average of Burst tops. While this might be more aesthetically pleasing to some as one of the more pronounced top carves, it is not any more or less accurate unless all Bursts have the same top carve as the Carmelita
    -Improved tailpiece? Do you have any facts that support this or is this a phantom improvement like the cutaway depth because the tailpiece doesn't look any more or less accurate from what I can see
    -The TH and 2017 custom standard cutaway depth is the same.


    So given the title of this thread I'm curious as to your post. Do you not think it beneficial to keep a thread dedicated to the facts, factual without this type of BS or embellishment. And afaic, while I'm sure Gibson has some good people their now Several of their key people, the people that actually built the custom shop to what it is today are no longer there. So saying somebody obsessing over the details is now calling the shots - well to that I say, Wow.
    Hey, please take a chill pill. I'm sorry if my post came across as embellishment or even BS to you. My God. I was merely stating that some of the details of the 2017's look really good and those in charge of such details have clearly listened to what the consumers of these high-priced instruments have wanted for a long time, basically replica-like details. What is it that seems to bother you so much? I was actually complimenting the Custom Shop for their products.
    All I said was, to me, some of the details on the 2017 look even more accurate than what I have seen on the last couple years' TH's. The top carve certainly looks deeper than the TH's, the tailpieces look angled, and the cutaway appears to be an improvement over the 2016 Standards. I agree that most TH's have cutouts that are correct and deep, if you browse the entire internets, you will notice that some TH's actually do not and are closer to the 2016 Standards. Whether that is a result of the handwork that goes into building these guitars or the templates, my point was merely an observation and was not intended to anger anyone. If you are so deeply troubled by my post, I suggest you ignore it.

  11. #51
    Les Paul Forum Member Zoomer's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    I agree with above, these new 17's are basically TH guitars at a lower price point. Loving mine!

    You even find plain tops that have flame !!!

    There is no such thing as too much flame !!!

  12. #52
    Les Paul Forum Member slammintone's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Top Gun, my 2017 59 Standard has that gap as well. I wonder if it's a standard feature. I've seen it in pic's of some real Bursts and always thought it looked
    Last edited by slammintone; 06-27-17 at 06:39 AM.

  13. #53
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by asapmaz View Post
    Hey, please take a chill pill. I'm sorry if my post came across as embellishment or even BS to you. My God. I was merely stating that some of the details of the 2017's look really good and those in charge of such details have clearly listened to what the consumers of these high-priced instruments have wanted for a long time, basically replica-like details. What is it that seems to bother you so much? I was actually complimenting the Custom Shop for their products.
    All I said was, to me, some of the details on the 2017 look even more accurate than what I have seen on the last couple years' TH's. The top carve certainly looks deeper than the TH's, the tailpieces look angled, and the cutaway appears to be an improvement over the 2016 Standards. I agree that most TH's have cutouts that are correct and deep, if you browse the entire internets, you will notice that some TH's actually do not and are closer to the 2016 Standards. Whether that is a result of the handwork that goes into building these guitars or the templates, my point was merely an observation and was not intended to anger anyone. If you are so deeply troubled by my post, I suggest you ignore it.
    I do not find your post deeply troubling. I did find it slightly erroneous and misleading particularly given the title of the thread: Facts which means facts, not rumors perceptions etc.

    I've never seen a TH cutout that was shallow. Even so, your post clearly implied that all TH cutouts are shallow or less correct. I have seen slight differences in TH top carves however so perhaps that is what you are referring to.

    I have no idea what this more accurate tailpiece you are referring to is. Again is this data you gathered from multiple examples of both or was it listed on a spec sheet that you're are privy too?

    Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad that despite the recent departures of key personnel that Gibson seems committed to continue the manufacture of high quality "historic" guitars and I share your enthusiasm for them. I said in a previous post that these are the historic "standard" Les Pauls that imho Gibson should have launched in 2015 instead of the very optimistically priced True Historics.

    However, sharing enthusiasm for the new historics is one thing, bullet pointing non factual personal perceptions as if your quoting from a Gibson spec sheet and suggesting that Gibson is now more interested in accuracy right after the departure of some of their best people is another. I think you would know the difference. Then again, maybe you're doing your best Cliff Claven impersonation and I'm just missing the joke.

    Apologies if my being a stickler for accuracy offends you but I think there's more than enough BS speculation and fake facts on many of these forums, No need to add any especially to a thread expressly striving to provide factual information.
    Last edited by JPP-1; 06-26-17 at 03:49 PM.

  14. #54
    Les Paul Forum Member Ronsonman's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Here's my take on getting rid of the top 2 custom shop guys. Gibson plans on cutting corners or doing something alot more cheaper than
    what the 2 experienced experts would go along with. Been there, seen it happen before. (not at gibson) It will come to light eventually.

  15. #55
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by slammintone View Post
    Top Gun, my 2017 59 Standard has that gap as well. I wonder if it's a standard feature. I've seen it in pic's of some real Bursts and always thought it looked cool
    That's a gorgoeus looking Les Paul Slammitone. Great shot ot it too

    I never noticed the gap until you mentioned it but now that you did I haven't seen a gap that extended on any of the bursts I just looked through on serialburst. Though it wouldn't surprise me if there were. Here is a random sampling of some of the photos of 59 bursts I looked through that had decent close ups of the gap.



    Not that I think the gap matters but it is an interesting observation.

  16. #56
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Gaps on bursts are everywhere.
    Type in Mike Slubowsky 1960 burst if you want to see a gap.
    Take a look at Goldie, too.
    And, probably the most famous burst with a gap, Pearly Gates.
    These are just three off the top of my head.
    P.S., there's a burst with a gap so big, they actually had to put a piece of plastic in the gap to make it look better.

  17. #57
    Les Paul Forum Member slammintone's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    0-2192



    Hope the pictures show what I'm talking about. I've seen it on a few Bursts in Beauty of the Burst as well.

    Sorry, for whatever reason Photobucket went tits up on me.
    Last edited by slammintone; 06-27-17 at 01:26 PM.

  18. #58

    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    when you guys say that the top carve different - what do you mean? Is it more pronounced or more flat? they seem flatter
    Last edited by ONEHERO; 06-27-17 at 09:05 AM.

  19. #59
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator CDaughtry's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    It's more pronounced.

  20. #60
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post

    The differences:

    -The top is not "double carved" but they are now using a more dramatic profile scanned from a well-known original 59.


    This is the real head scratcher for me. After years of reissues and repeated boasts of meticulously copying the originals to the finest detail, why has it taken so song for them to actually check out and adopt the dish carve profile of the originals? One can simply look at pictures of them and see the differences so it makes ya wonder why they didnt see this too?? There has been so much variation in the different carves this should have been standardised years ago ... same for the cutaway access and the PU covers.. They have gotten so close but still cant seem to get the whole thing as accurate as they advertise they have.. Oh well..

  21. #61
    Les Paul Forum Member slammintone's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Untitled by Rick S., on Flickr

    Untitled by Rick S., on Flickr

  22. #62
    Les Paul Forum Member Top Gun's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Some early morning sun...


  23. #63
    Les Paul Forum Member slammintone's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Great color on that one!

  24. #64
    All Access/Backstage Pass Progrocker111's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Wow, thats really a nice one.
    My diagnosis is: Hiwatt and Norlinphilia


    1969 Gibson Les Paul Custom
    1972 Hiwatt DR103, 1972 Hiwatt SE4122

  25. #65

    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Great looking guitars. I would love to buy the dirty lemon R8. There seems to be only a very limited number on sale in general.

    I'm in Ireland and the closest Gibson dealer with any is in the UK; Andertons have around three, GAK have a few. Will more become available? Thomann in Germany do not have any in stock.

    My problem is that the R8's for sale in the UK have very plain tops, some of the 2017 R8s on sale in the US have much nicer tops (Wildwood Guitars, Mark's Guitar Loft). I know they are not meant to be as flamey, but they are beyond plain.

    AFAIK, it would be very expensive to import a guitar from the US with VAT (sales tax 20%) and import duty (14%) to be applied.

  26. #66
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Just wanted to point out my R9 2017 , doesn't have the " more brown colored " , just the typical 2013 and up back color .
    Last edited by John550; 07-17-17 at 04:53 PM.

  27. #67
    Les Paul Forum Member Top Gun's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    2017 limited run from HOG. Thanks Curt!!!


  28. #68
    Les Paul Forum Member fjminor's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    That is a Killer Matt!!! Congrats.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains
    long after low pricing is forgotten! "

  29. #69
    Les Paul Forum Member ff1337's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by fjminor View Post
    That is a Killer Matt!!! Congrats.
    +1

  30. #70
    Les Paul Forum Member Sct13's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Thanx for posting that info...I'll probably look at schloking some stuff around and get one....Finally after two years of waiting ...
    2011 Gibson LP R-9 HM RDS
    2013 Gibson LP R-0 CC#7 "Shanks"
    2014 Gibson LP R-8 Hand Picked
    2014 Gibson LP R-8 MTM Aged Green Lemon

    and various other stringed things, with amps to make them louder....

  31. #71
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    The 2017 guitars posted in this thread look Tip Top to my eyes , thanks for sharing !

    I have bought historic guitars since 94 everything i own is historic , i choose a guitar for how the tone is and how it plays .

    The Wilson era does not define or qualify a guitar for me at this point .
    He was a sonic disaster, thinking hours of practice would make up for stock pickups, poorly carved top and The wrong glue !

  32. #72
    Les Paul Forum Member 58 Lemons's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Hi guys

    I've recently purchased a Historic LP. May be a stupid question, but how can I tell if its a 2016 or 2017? Pretty sure its a 2016, but it wasn't ever stated, and I never even thought to consider it. I just loved he look and feel! Is there a way I can find out from serial numbers or something?

    Cheers

  33. #73
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    If you have a five digit serial number the second number is the year , the first number is the model .
    He was a sonic disaster, thinking hours of practice would make up for stock pickups, poorly carved top and The wrong glue !

  34. #74
    Les Paul Forum Member Top Gun's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    2017 Pearly clone!


  35. #75
    Les Paul Forum Member 58 Lemons's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Hi guys

    Love that 'pearly clone' - stunning!

    Can I ask what does 'pearly' or 'pearler' mean? I've heard a few mentions often on here.

    D
    ************************************************

    Gibson Historic 1958 Les Paul, Lemonburst VOS
    Gibson DG-335, Gold
    Gibson ES-339, Pelham Blue

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  36. #76
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    I believe if I am not mistaken that it refers to ZZ Top guitarist Billy Gibbons famous burst named Pearly Gates . It does have that look .

  37. #77
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by slammintone View Post
    I've shown my 2017 '59 Standard around to a couple guys well versed in Historics past and one of them says he's never felt a neck like it has. It's almost like it's trying to be a soft V shape due to the lack of "cheek" or shoulders but it still feels substantial in the hand and plays fantastic. To me the newer profile reminds me of a cello's neck or a few late 40s Epiphone/Gibson archtops I've played. Whatever it is I hope they keep it up at Gibson.
    For anyone who's keeping score... I can confirm that my 2017 '58 Standard does indeed have an *almost* v shape to it. I was actually surprised at how the neck isn't as big as I thought it would be. Really comfortable, but not as thick as previous years '58's that I've tried. Seems like all the Standards regardless of year are getting the same size/shape neck and that the only difference between the years aside from weight would be:

    56 = goldtop w/P90's
    57 = goldtop
    58 = "plaintop" (in quotes because so many are coming in pretty flamey)
    59 = flametop
    60 = ???

    Can anyone confirm this?

  38. #78
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilver View Post
    For anyone who's keeping score... I can confirm that my 2017 '58 Standard does indeed have an *almost* v shape to it. I was actually surprised at how the neck isn't as big as I thought it would be. Really comfortable, but not as thick as previous years '58's that I've tried. Seems like all the Standards regardless of year are getting the same size/shape neck and that the only difference between the years aside from weight would be:

    54 = goldtop w/P90s & wraptail

    56 = goldtop w/P90's
    57 = goldtop
    58 = "plaintop" (in quotes because so many are coming in pretty flamey)
    59 = flametop
    60 = flametop, slim 60s profile neck (avg. 0.80 / 0.93)

    Can anyone confirm this?
    My additions in yellow.

  39. #79
    Les Paul Forum Member Top Gun's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    2017 59'




  40. #80
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    Re: 2017 Gibson Custom Shop's Les Paul Std...separating fact from rumor!

    Quote Originally Posted by indravayu View Post
    My additions in yellow.
    So are you saying that the 60 is the only one with a different neck profile?

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