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Gibson Custom vs Gibson USA

renderit

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Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
My hands never left my wrists. I too remember Mr. A. As I recall the quintessential bridge structural expert. I'll be keeping my good eye on you Mr. A...
 

scovell001

Active member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
115
Ok,

I have 'just' come away from playing a murphy 58 TH about an hour ago in a shop. Im comparing it to my '14 trad which has been upgraded with faber iNserts & is all nicely set up with fresh strings.

The first thing that struck me was the fretboard, it looked & felt identical to mine, which I thought was a bit low rent, I was hoping for something a little darker. The neck profile was identical to mine, with the exception that at the headstock end I thought mine was more comfortable, it was like the headstock angle was different on the TH.

The TH was a fair lighter than mine (obviously) but it didnt have the woody mellowness & sustain I could feel all through the body since my upgrades. It had sustain for sure but it was at a different pitch more metallicy for want of a better word.

The tone pots & pickups all seemed All good. nothin to blow socks off, but certainly get the job done.

I went in expecting to be blown away, instead was like 'oh, ok', maybe I'll stick with what I got.

I think I need to go back with my own amp & if they'll let me, re string it & oil up the board (it was very dry).

I still think of the Orville les paul I played, it was a real cracker & I shouldve bought it for the £800 !

So, on my initial play through I was expecting something from the TH which exists in my current LP but isnt in this one.

The search continues......
 

Mats A

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
799
Do you mean "CC" as in Collectors Choice or do you mean "CS" as in Custom Shop, if you mean "CC" what were you "into"?

Could be that my iPad or iPhone slip in swedish words when i write fast and i don't always notice. It's kind of swedish talking being a swede. I ment CS as in Custom Shop.
 

Mats A

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
799
Right on, I gotcha now.

Reminds me of our last rehearsal debate. "Please explain to me, how in the hell can Jolene be better looking than Dolly Parton?" lol

It's my swedish talking iPhone that sometimes throws in swedish words and i don't always notice. But i guess it makes the trolls happy!
 

Mats A

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
799
My earlier post in the other thread was maybe too flamboyant a description. The '60 I played just sounded nothing like any other LP I ever encountered, and Al's right it was just one individual guitar. Do I think I can tell between everything? Of course not, that's nuts, especially a USA vs. CS shootout. They're all on their own for tone with a little push one way or another from the model type and pickups. I am pretty darn sure I could tell that particular guitar from the other high end Gibson's I've played though. It had a very distinct sound. Carter, Gruhn, and Rumbleseat are pretty much within walking distance from each other and I set out that day to play as much insane Gibson stuff as I could. Just observations from the day on tone. I'm not out to upset anyone so don't take it personal.

The name of this thread was an invitation for my opinion, so I gave it. I was also admitting in the thread that was referenced that my USA which I do love and is a great example of a LP regardless of flavor, isn't even close to a real burst, so it was an equal opportunity assessment of what I think of the one real Burst I've played in comparison to the other LP's. I own custom shop guitars, just none from Gibson, I'm not a high end basher.
I'm sure how a guitar sounds mostly comes from the player. Gary Moore on many gigs of wich some is on record or DVD (Like the Monsters Of Rock CD/DVD) played both his Greenie, other vintage Les Pauls and his new Signature Les Paul wich was no Custom Shop guitar. He sounded just as good on that one. In fact he does a killer version of Don't Believe A Word on that guitar and it's one of the best tones he's had on a live recording of that song.
 

Mats A

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
799
I was wondering when you would show up. Mats, you are a troll, plain and simple. You posted that you had a CS Les paul and didn't like it as you felt the neck was too big for your tastes. Fine, no one had a problem. You posted that you bought a USA Standard and loved it. Again all was fine and no one took issue with that. Then you went on a multiple posts, multiple thread spree and launched a crusade against the Historic and CC Les Pauls and branded those of us who liked or owned them as Cork Sniffers, snobs and elitists. I wasn't the only one put off by your constant garage against our choice of guitar. All those posts are still there, your words and actions have led many of us to clearly understand your agenda.

If you remember, many of us, myself included, tried to give you the benefit of the doubt as we thought that maybe English was a second language, and that maybe something was coming across as unintended by you as a result. You continued to behave in the same way and got called out. That you enter this thread and start off with the Corksniffer name calling and your obvious desire to further your own agenda against Custom Shop Gibsons is again plainly evident for anyone to see. This is why I get so testy. It gets very old.
Well i don't have anything against them who buys CS or TH guitars. It's up to them even if you maybe could get two or three guitars that would do the job as well for the same money. I don't have anything against cork sniffers either. It's totally ok to care more about that the guitar is made just like in the 50's with even the same glue than if it will sound and play good. Shame they can't get a Braz fingerboard on them. It's almost funny how some can become so upset. It's just a guitar we're talking about. Maybe i haven't played a real Burst and for sure there is much i don't know about guitars like specs and some technical things. But i sure know how a good guitar sounds and feels.
Big Al don't feed the Troll'
 

Fuzzpop

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
51
It's totally ok to care more about that the guitar is made just like in the 50's with even the same glue than if it will sound and play good.

Why are these two things mutually exclusive to you? You can want a Historic or a CC and still wait until you find one that sounds and feels right to you.

I wanted Historic or a CC so I went to my local used shop. I played a bunch of LPs while I was there, including two R8s, a 90s CS Standard and a CC. I'd wa;led in expecting to fall in love with an R8, but the R0 won me over. If none of them had felt right, I wouldn't have bought any of them and just continued the search. My R0 is the best sounding and feeling LP I've ever played personally. I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't bond with it in the shop.
 

Mats A

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Jan 15, 2008
Messages
799
I didn't say all did i? I believe most guitar players is more interested in playing than sniffing on guitars. But there are some that seems to care more about the glue and the top. That is totally ok but they get so offended if you comment on it. A great player makes a guitar great. A bad player will make any guitar bad. The glue and top won't save them.
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
I didn't say all did i? I believe most guitar players is more interested in playing than sniffing on guitars. But there are some that seems to care more about the glue and the top. That is totally ok but they get so offended if you comment on it. A great player makes a guitar great. A bad player will make any guitar bad. The glue and top won't save them.

Hey Mats; trying to be open and honest and all and realizing that English
is not your main language, do you even realize that "cork sniffing" would
be considered a very derogatory term particularly coming from you with
your posting history? Coming from Swedish lineage you are embarrassing
me out the ass with the continued need to use it. But judging from your
"doubling down" in the comment above I would suggest you do indeed
understand what you are doing. Therefore I believe you would prefer to
be referred to as about 50 terms I can think of right off the bat. I suggest
you stow it and go back to your bridge.
 
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Fuzzpop

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
51
I didn't say all did i? I believe most guitar players is more interested in playing than sniffing on guitars. But there are some that seems to care more about the glue and the top. That is totally ok but they get so offended if you comment on it. A great player makes a guitar great. A bad player will make any guitar bad. The glue and top won't save them.

Fair enough.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Big Al is one of the most knowledgeable folks on this forum .

I wouldn't say that. There are plenty of knowledgeable folks around here. I just remember a lot stuff and have a pretty good understanding of the whys and hows after spending almost a half a century trying to figure it all out.:##:##


Look, people like what they like for a variety of reasons. We all make up our minds as to what suits our wants and needs best. The truth is that quite frankly some have no experience with the breadth and width of all the various recipes, specs and price points that are part of the whole history of Gibsons and Les Pauls in particular. I was lucky to be of an age when it was more common, and affordable to experience vintage 50's models and owned many, many examples from the Melody Maker-Jr-Special-Goldtop-Custom and two beautiful Bursts. I played out damn near every week and was an active musician playing Clubs, Concerts, Festivals and parties as well as Radio live simulcasts, recording and a few TV spots on local channels. As well as playing and Recording I was a Gibson Repair Tech as well as Martin/Fender and Guild and did repairs for local Music Retailers as well as my own shop. I worked in Retail which allowed me to get gear at cost and keep up with all the new models from the mid 70's until the mid 2000's.

I just have seen so much and have so much time invested with them, that IMO, it gives me a realistic view of all of it. From the 50's to now. I've seen and experienced the evolution and though there are way too many models now, and spec changes are more rapid, I still spend lots of time at my local retailers where I am well known, and liked I think, enough that I still get to check out all of it.

My preferences for certain models, types or features is born out of my own unique history and satisfying my wants and needs is the only thing I can can claim 100% infallibility with. And, it should be for everyone. But, lacking all that history, or not really grasping the true nature of the various types and models, or just being a newbie,(NOT A BAD THING), or neophyte often means that your opinions, wants and needs MAY change as you gain experience and knowledge for yourself. Some of us are lucky right off the bat, as almost any year or model Les Paul variant can be all you would need, that first one just works perfectly.

Others are never satisfied and flip through guitars faster than Renderit changes color or type set. I fall in the middle, I evolved a certain criteria, found it and am satisfied with my choices.

Real knowledge is a great thing. Myth and folk lore often passing as real knowledge, is harmful IMO, and only reinforces intangible nether facts that can't really be proven, you just gotta believe it. That stuff makes me crazy.

All these things are different. That variety makes it somewhat easier to find a perfect fit for your wants and needs, and assuming you know enough about them to define them, it is a good thing, a very good thing, IMO and I celebrate everyone that has found a worthy instrument of choice. I own and use a couple of Les paul Studio's. I deliberately bought the bottom of the Line, carved top Les Paul to prove a point that even the very least Les Paul is a mighty fine guitar. I own Norlins and USA as well as my Historics and everyone of them can stand on it's own. That does not negate or diminish the sometimes great differences among them.

What is distasteful to me are those that, for whatever reason, feel the need to dump on others choices. Our trollish Swede is a good example. If you search his many posts, and indeed the ones here, you can see he has a hard on for Custom Shop guitars. They don't suit him, so those that do like, or prefer them, are snobs and spoiled rich folks too caught up in snobbish dreams to really know how wrong we are. Thankfully, we have his enlightened reasoning, to post at every opportunity, about how we are snobs and he is so smart and so wise and so discerning a guitarist, that was so smart to get his greatest Les Paul ever made, and expose the Custom Shop for the the rich boy toys they are.

Some people, some people just don't get it.

Now is there a difference between USA and Custom Shop?? ABSOLUTELY, of course. Players with experience can tell, players that need a certain performance characteristic provided by the specific build quality of one or the other can tell. People that may simply want one or the other for whatever reason, can tell. The reason one is chosen over the other is the differences we can tell.

And I can tell when someone is full of shit and hot air and lacks true insight or knowledge. I can tell, because there is a difference between fact and truth vs myth and bullshit.

I can tell.
 
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JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
Big Al, you seem like a no-nonsense type of guy and I enjoy many of your posts. I can see how some of thse posts here got under your skin. There are some types of posts that particularly irk me too.

To be fair, I'm not really familiar with the current USA Gibsons to make any type of tonal conclusion. I would think with care and a talented player and perhaps a pickup swap that great results can be had from those guitars.

But I don't see why that should matter to you or any of Mats A opinions. It wouldn't change my view of the Historics I've owned and own. I'm sure it doesn't change yours. I don't think it would change someone's mind buying a historic Les Paul anymore than a great sounding Epiphone Les Paul would change someone's mind about their Gibson USA.

When I looked for a Les Paul. I wanted a guitar that could get me as close to the iconic Gibson Les Paul's that I admire. Gibson's Historic line is the closest Les Paul I can get short of buying a Burst.

Since all guitars have their own unique sonic fingerprint generalities are for me highly suspect. Sure you can talk about build quality, multiple pieces of wood, weight relief, tenon size but why bother. I wanted to find a Les Paul that speaks to me and gives me the tone I hear in my head while also providing the feel, playability and aesthetics that I look for in a Les Paul. Therefore, for me, the only guitar that has a chance of meeting this criteria is a Gibson Historic Les Paul. However great or not great a certain Gibson USA is or sounds to Mats A or anyone else is irrelevant to me. If you think about it, it probabaly is to you as well.
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
I don't think anyone is trying to change anybody else's opinions. The hackles come out when labels start getting stuck on people in an obviously negative manner designed to invoke a reaction. It's call baiting. There are many who pass these portals who are trying to earn a degree in it. Why? Makes them feel better about themselves I suppose. Or have a snicker with the imaginary "friends". Maybe some feel they have been slighted. I don't know. Maybe it happens. I have only seen it once myself. Yesterday as a matter of fact. On this site. My opinion of the person went from pretty high to dirt low with one post.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Big Al, you seem like a no-nonsense type of guy and I enjoy many of your posts. I can see how some of thse posts here got under your skin. There are some types of posts that particularly irk me too.

To be fair, I'm not really familiar with the current USA Gibsons to make any type of tonal conclusion. I would think with care and a talented player and perhaps a pickup swap that great results can be had from those guitars.

But I don't see why that should matter to you or any of Mats A opinions. It wouldn't change my view of the Historics I've owned and own. I'm sure it doesn't change yours. I don't think it would change someone's mind buying a historic Les Paul anymore than a great sounding Epiphone Les Paul would change someone's mind about their Gibson USA.

When I looked for a Les Paul. I wanted a guitar that could get me as close to the iconic Gibson Les Paul's that I admire. Gibson's Historic line is the closest Les Paul I can get short of buying a Burst.

Since all guitars have their own unique sonic fingerprint generalities are for me highly suspect. Sure you can talk about build quality, multiple pieces of wood, weight relief, tenon size but why bother. I wanted to find a Les Paul that speaks to me and gives me the tone I hear in my head while also providing the feel, playability and aesthetics that I look for in a Les Paul. Therefore, for me, the only guitar that has a chance of meeting this criteria is a Gibson Historic Les Paul. However great or not great a certain Gibson USA is or sounds to Mats A or anyone else is irrelevant to me. If you think about it, it probabaly is to you as well.

Where did I post any generalisations about ANY model as being better? Where did I claim any ability to decide what is better for anyone, other than the choice a person makes for themselves?

I only claimed that in general they are different and nowhere claimed any as better. I know what's better for me and why. When have I EVER pushed my idea of "better" on anyone elses choice, other than claiming what, in MY opinion, works better for ME?
 
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