• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Aged True Historic VS True Historic

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
No. That is simply not true at all. Being so close to the H.O.G I get to spend considerable time with their Gibsons stock. I have played hundreds over the years and have a pretty good understanding of the range and differences through the years. ALL of the Historics, True Historics, Custom Shop whatevers are made the same, in general for the same years. That is all True histories share spec's and build quality. Cosmetic aging is an option for those that desire such treatment for a variety of reasons. Reasons that in truth are cosmetic only. They look old, they appear to have wear. Claims of sonic superiority and magic wood and super duper selection of the mostest magicalicious tonalating bestest Les Pauls is pure fabrication, sometimes used to justify purchasing an aged guitar, rather than simply admitting you like the way it appears, it must now possess magical tonal properties and be better than non aged guitars, which are the same damn thing unaged.

Murphy aged guitars have more fabrication associated with how great and exceptional they are because Murphy was the originator of aged guitars at Gibson and attach great worth to instruments he personally does. If you like that kind of thing it is cool, and he makes them look a certain way. What he doesn't do is make them sound better or somehow get a special build better than the rest to age.

Playing one or two and making a general proclamation about the inherent quality of the same guitar aged or unpaged is foolish. Every True Historic, every single one, and there have been many, aged and unaged, that i have played was a wonderful playing and sounding musical instrument showing the same range of sounds you find with other models. R9's for instance show the same thing for guitars made in the same years. What I mean 1999's are all built the same and share the same quality of build, gloss or aged. Same for 2010 R6's for example. Wood varies and there is always a range of tonal spread from one to another. But you cannot predict a specific tonal effect, or know exactly how a guitar may sound until it has been built.
 
Last edited:

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
I fully stand by my reading ability and my ability to judge character based on past performances. I withdraw nothing.

What does judging character have to do with determining whether a statement is factual and accurate or not. Regardless, it's not your place or your right to judge my or any forum members character. You do have the right however to comment on my posts. Apperently when the truth and facts are no longer friendly to your assertions you go low and make an underhanded negative inference about my character.

Go ahead, double down on statements that are contrary to the facts and even join the ranks of Indravayu and get personal with your attacks. It doesn't matter to me.

What I stated is factual, no more no less. Disagree in multicolor fonts, rant and rave, take a stand. It changes nothing. Regrettably, some people have either a tenuous grasp or little regard for what is true and factual.
 

ourmaninthenorth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,119
It could simply mean that the Murphy/CS aged guitars, are great guitars in and of themselves, in spite of being aged, rather than because.

Apologies - this is in reply to clearmudd - I meant to quote your post, but ballsed it up. :##


Here's one of the last comparisons that I did..My Murphy and a CC Nicky...both great guitars, I preferred my Murphy, in every department. What does that scientifically prove? Nothing really, other than I have a preference between these two guitars ( and about another 50 that I've done similar A/B's with )

20150918_134057_zpsl8qmmyip.jpg


:salude
 
Last edited:

clearmudd

Active member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
499
It could simply mean that the Murphy/CS aged guitars, are great guitars in and of themselves, in spite of being aged, rather than because.

Apologies - this is in reply to clearmudd - I meant to quote your post, but ballsed it up. :##


Here's one of the last comparisons that I did..My Murphy and a CC Nicky...both great guitars, I preferred my Murphy, in every department. What does that scientifically prove? Nothing really, other than I have a preference between these two guitars ( and about another 50 that I've done similar A/B's with )

20150918_134057_zpsl8qmmyip.jpg


:salude

I kind of like your Nicky my self, and if I could a/b your guitars I might have different opinion. My CC 28 is the favorite of my lot.:salude
 

ourmaninthenorth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,119
I kind of like your Nicky my self, and if I could a/b your guitars I might have different opinion. My CC 28 is the favorite of my lot.:salude

And there's the rub I think. The guy who owned the Nicky pictured preferred his guitar over mine.

And to underpin my previous contention, my Murphy, a 2001 R9 Plaintop, which I bought in 2008 ish was the last Historic that I bought..despite many A/B tests with many other Historics, TH Murphy's, CC's.... since that time, I never found a single one that I'd swap it for.

My point in this discussion is that I concentrate on preference as a result of comparison, rather than a set of comparative criteria as ends in themselves.

It's a fairly meaningless statement to make in isolation, but when pressure tested in the real world of playing multiple guitars against each other, for me, it brought real meaning and appreciation of my own tastes and preferences. Ultimately it brought me the guitar that gave me immense joy to play for so many years.

I think when we get numerous people in the same room all doing likewise, friction can occur by the impossible task of trying to measure our individual preferences against each other.

I really enjoy seeing guitar players who love the guitars they play.

Cheers Lads.

:salude
 

clearmudd

Active member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
499
I must be crazy 'cause I can't just have one favorite. I have TH59 unaged and I still keep an eye out for a aged TH. I own a R6,R7,R8 and a CC28(R8) a R9 and the TH9. My favorite depends on what mood I'm in. Every guitar I own was a result of testing many before finding the one. Therefore they're all are my favorites. Go figure.
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
Hey JPP. Let's us bury the hatchet! You are taking me all wrong. I am not attacking you and your character. I can guess what you will say next because of your character though. I understand what you are saying. I THINK you lept on indravayu on the third post here. Go back and read it. Your NEED to pounce on anybody saying a TH or TH aged is worth a shit laughably readable. Tell me I got it wrong? You are walking around with these Everybody Knows These Facts To Be True©®℗℞ leaflets which are PART of the TH build process. God forbid anybody points to other build qualities they like. And those maybe Mr. Murphy adds which make sure something with his name on it ain't a POS. I love you man! I will buy you a beer if you are in town EVER. I think we would get along fine. Just RELAX. And as Mr. Biggimus Alusness says: If it don't float yer boat don't drop da dime!. But don't feel the need to piss on anybody who does. Please. Dude! I lubs you man!

Peace out.
I am going to get in touch with my um now. Whatever the fug that is. What's this thing call internet pron?
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
Sure Renderit, I agree, let's bury the hatchet. I'm sure we would get along fine.

I'll even concede one of your points, that these anecdotal extrapolations are a pet peeve of mine. With that said I've seen many of indravayu's posts and maybe he deserved getting lept on.

I guess I just can't figure it, how someone can conclude after playing 3 LPs that since LP type A sounded best all LP type As must sound best. To me it's the same thing as saying gee, the Lemonburst LP sounded better than the darkburst and cherryburst therefore all lemonbursts sound best.

Incidentally, I also took issue with the whole TH vs non TH debate despite the fact that the only LP I currently own is a TH and it's the best Les Paul I've owned, maybe best I've played. So I do apply the same "rules" to myself .

At the end of the day, this banter over guitars may get a little heated from time to time but it is all in good heated fun. Look at it this way, it's far less toxic than say arguing over politics.
:salude

Hey JPP. Let's us bury the hatchet! You are taking me all wrong. I am not attacking you and your character. I can guess what you will say next because of your character though. I understand what you are saying. I THINK you lept on indravayu on the third post here. Go back and read it. Your NEED to pounce on anybody saying a TH or TH aged is worth a shit laughably readable. Tell me I got it wrong? You are walking around with these Everybody Knows These Facts To Be True©®℗℞ leaflets which are PART of the TH build process. God forbid anybody points to other build qualities they like. And those maybe Mr. Murphy adds which make sure something with his name on it ain't a POS. I love you man! I will buy you a beer if you are in town EVER. I think we would get along fine. Just RELAX. And as Mr. Biggimus Alusness says: If it don't float yer boat don't drop da dime!. But don't feel the need to piss on anybody who does. Please. Dude! I lubs you man!

Peace out.
I am going to get in touch with my um now. Whatever the fug that is. What's this thing call internet pron?
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
Sure Renderit, I agree, let's bury the hatchet. I'm sure we would get along fine.

I'll even concede one of your points, that these anecdotal extrapolations are a pet peeve of mine. With that said I've seen many of indravayu's posts and maybe he deserved getting lept on.

I guess I just can't figure it, how someone can conclude after playing 3 LPs that since LP type A sounded best all LP type As must sound best. To me it's the same thing as saying gee, the Lemonburst LP sounded better than the darkburst and cherryburst therefore all lemonbursts sound best.

Incidentally, I also took issue with the whole TH vs non TH debate despite the fact that the only LP I currently own is a TH and it's the best Les Paul I've owned, maybe best I've played. So I do apply the same "rules" to myself .

At the end of the day, this banter over guitars may get a little heated from time to time but it is all in good heated fun. Look at it this way, it's far less toxic than say arguing over politics.
:salude


I agree with what you are saying, but parse what indravayu actually typed up there. The way I read it he is not claiming they are ALL better. He is saying HIS is better than his other ones and the one he tried. THAT is what I am driving at. I may be reading it wrong but I see nothing inherently wrong in what he typed. I would agree with you if he expanded that boundary to include all others. I don't feel he did. What is more he truthfully answered the OP's post.

The beer offer is still on though, water over the dam and everything. And yes, this is awesome heated fun! I may not be at it a lot for the next few months though. I have a lot I have been avoiding that needs doing and this is taking too much of my time. But I will still be here, so rip away when you feel the need and I'll jump on your back from nowhere just like old times!
 

1jamman

New member
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
610
Between aged True Historic and True Historic, does Gibson picked the best among true historic before make it aged?

I wonder if someone who owns both type could tell me.

IMO , it's pretty easy to answer . What is better for 1 doesn't meant it's better for another ...
 

surfreak

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
1,115
I have owned two True Historics: a regular 1958 and a Murphy Aged 1958. Have also played several other THs (a 57 and a few CCs with TH specs).

The Murphy Aged is superior to the regular TH58 and TH57. I'd say it's on par with the TH-CCs I have played.



JPP, see? it's "the" Murphy Aged, and "the" regular TH, as in, his own guitars. Not "All" Murphy Aged, not "all" TH.

No need for a crusade.
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
Point taken, and yes, on its face, after rereading Indravayu post myself, I would have to agree with your assessment of it. Keep in mind though, I was looking at this particular post through the lens of many of Indravayu's other posts which in the interest of keeping this on an up note I won't get into.

I hope I did not personally insult anyone. I don't think I went there.

Anyway, Renderit, Beer offer sounds good, though I'm more of a Scotch guy myself. I like to think a good Scotch is the LP among drinks. And yeah this Forum is a good diversion for sure.

I agree with what you are saying, but parse what indravayu actually typed up there. The way I read it he is not claiming they are ALL better. He is saying HIS is better than his other ones and the one he tried. THAT is what I am driving at. I may be reading it wrong but I see nothing inherently wrong in what he typed. I would agree with you if he expanded that boundary to include all others. I don't feel he did. What is more he truthfully answered the OP's post.

The beer offer is still on though, water over the dam and everything. And yes, this is awesome heated fun! I may not be at it a lot for the next few months though. I have a lot I have been avoiding that needs doing and this is taking too much of my time. But I will still be here, so rip away when you feel the need and I'll jump on your back from nowhere just like old times!
 

guitty

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
46
Last year I decided to get a TH58. From about 10 the dealer had I ended with the Murphy aged one because it sounded best to me. Old and vocal sounding, yet still balanced and transparent (chords). The same happened two years ago when I checked out regular R9s, R8s and some CCs. Some of the aged CCs sounded better to me than the rest.
Same with the Rick Nielsen. The aged version just sounded more lively and musically.

Just a personal opinion though, I wouldn't generalize this. But I always would choose the aged version first.
 

L.A.Man

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
1,143
I know what I have said (and stand by it) - don't need some dork with a chip on his shoulder to throw it back at me in some ridiculous accusatory manner. What are you, one those Blooze lawyers?

Aren't you the same guy that got banned from the other forum for name calling?

You owning a bunch of guitars and playing for a bunch of years, makes you just like a bunch of other guys on this forum.

Your guitars sound as good to you, as mine do to me,which means nothing to anyone else.

There is a"blooze lawyer" on this forum that can play circles around you.
 
Last edited:

CAGinLA

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
489
Aren't you the same guy that got banned from the other forum for name calling?

You owning a bunch of guitars and playing for a bunch of years, makes you just like a bunch of other guys on this forum.

Your guitars sound as good to you, as mine do to me,which means nothing to anyone else.

There is a"blooze lawyer" on this forum that can play circles around you.

No, I'm not banned from there, troll.

You're obviously too slow to understand that by "blooze lawyer" I was making fun of losers attempting to prosecute me on this forum as if they're lawyers and this is a court of law.
 

Sparta

New member
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
693
My suspect that they just pull one off of the rack. The aged guitars aren't necessarily better or worse, they're just aged. Rolling of the fretboard edges makes a small improvement in the feel of the neck, but otherwise its all just cosmetics.

With all respect, why would Tom Murphy NOT pick the better or best ones?
 

L.A.Man

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
1,143
No, I'm not banned from there, troll.

You're obviously too slow to understand that by "blooze lawyer" I was making fun of losers attempting to prosecute me on this forum as if they're lawyers and this is a court of law.

What I see in your posts are that you get defensive and angry when anyone disagrees with you, you resort to name calling,and insults to make your point.

As far as being a troll, I am not anything more than a member of both forums , having observed your bad behavior, and personal attacks on people that opposed you.

You like to call people dorks.trolls, and "faggots" which got you in trouble on the other forum, didn't it?

This is not a court of law, stop with the drama.

Let me slow it down for now, read this very slowly so you don't miss the point.

You don't know jackshit about what other people like,just you.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
With all respect, why would Tom Murphy NOT pick the better or best ones?

When I talked with him he told me he looks for a certain type top. Best is subjective and has no bearing on overall quality of the guitar. He picks ones he likes the look of, that is all.
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
With all respect, why would Tom Murphy NOT pick the better or best ones?

How could he. When would he find time to actually age them if he has to play and tone test the thousands of historics each year to select the best ones available. Even if he could say work 24 hours a day, how does this tone testing add to Gibson's bottom line.
 
Top