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58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

BurstWurst

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Jan 24, 2008
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568
I have an opportunity on a 58 tweed pro, but one that's seen a very hard road. Was in a club that had a fire many years ago. The tweed was ruined, the speaker was ruined, silkscreen labels were destroyed and it was smoked up. Since the fire, it has seen some electronic repair, but, at present, only the instrument channel is working. I've told the seller that I'm interested in it but at nothing like typical prices we see for that era tweeds, as a tinkering project only. What do y'all think is a reasonable offer for what I've described? I've told the seller that I'd like for him to name a price for it as I don't want to insult him with the amount I'd really like to get it for. It could easily turn out to be irredeemable given what it's been through.
 

F-Hole

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Not sure (genuinely), but if you're looking for a 59 with good pedigree I have one I'd let go.
 

BurstWurst

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Not sure (genuinely), but if you're looking for a 59 with good pedigree I have one I'd let go.

F-hole. the heads-up is much appreciated. However, after years of excessive G.A.S.ing, and coming into my "senior" years, I've slowed down on my quest to acquire everything I take a fancy to. Looking at this amp more as a project to tinker with. I was considering making a pseudo Super-Amp out of it. Just not sure I have the amp tinkering chops to do so without spending a ton or suffering more frustration than it's worth. With the fire damage, seems a fairly shady proposition.:hmm
 

B Ingram

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Jan 3, 2016
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... I was considering making a pseudo Super-Amp out of it. Just not sure I have the amp tinkering chops to do so without spending a ton or suffering more frustration than it's worth. ...

The Pro and Super had the same circuits in the chassis, but used different output transformers due to the different speaker loads (4Ω of 2x10 vs 8Ω of 1x15).

I'm no help for value, though.
 

Wally

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When presented with situations like this one where a prospective seller does not want to name a price....and IF I want the piece....I will name a price---somewhere below my max---- that I would be willing to give and tell them over that price somewhere I start backing up. That can get the dickering started....or establish the reality that the seller does not want to take what the thing is actually worth.
Any one of those conditions....tweed, speaker, chrome/lettering...is a big hit on the value, ime. Even fully retweeded and in proper operating condition with a good speaker in it the amp would be worth half at most of exc and original condition. The fact that the lettering is gone might make even 50% unattainable even after retweeding and the work to make the amp be what it should be sonics-wise.
IF this owner thinks he has a $3K amp, he is mistaken. IF he thinks he has $2K sitting there, he needs a reality check. My
'I'd be willing to make this offer to start a conversation" would be $600. MY max would not be a lot more. And...that is IF I liked what I heard out of the amp as it sits. I have a feeling that he and I would not be doing the deal, right? (;^)
I have the chassi and trannies from a '56 5E5A and a later 5F6A that went through a worse fire than that. NO boards, no pots,....all of that was ruined. Speaker frames are there....but I going to doubt that they are of any use after the dousing of fire retardant and water that they received. IT was a mess cleaning things up.....$42K worth of vintage amps up in flames.
 

MapleFlame

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Wally is spot on. Please post pictures of every angle. The power and output transformers make these amps. The guys on this thread can help you out greatly. I'm not bad either. Goid luck. Fun project if enough is there.
 

BurstWurst

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Jan 24, 2008
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The seller says one channel is working. Does that suggest that the transformers are good (well, relatively speaking)? I've bought several amps over the years with a channel out and it was always a bad preamp tube.
 

Wally

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The seller says one channel is working. Does that suggest that the transformers are good (well, relatively speaking)? I've bought several amps over the years with a channel out and it was always a bad preamp tube.

Nothing that we know establishes that the transformers are good, ime. One has to hear the amp in person and have enough experience to hear that the sonics are 'proper'. An OT for instance can produce sound...even what some might think is good sound...and still be very much compromised. IF I hear big, strong output, I can then feel somewhat assured that the trannies are good.
Having one channel that is not working does establish that that problem occurs early in the circuit. V1 handles both channels. One triode could be out in V1 and cause a dead channel. That channel problem is relatively minor, I would think. There are only a handful of components that are dedicated to only that channel.
 

Wally

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And....those pics could give me a headache looking at the blur going on. LOL...
 

B Ingram

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Only pics I was provided. No good pics of x-formers

Ack!! Essentially all board-parts replaced, lots of dinking with the wiring, tweed gone, speaker replaced with ceramic, handle replaced with something odd.

Buy the guy a decent dinner and take the amp in payment. There's virtually no collector value left (even with the transformer status unknown). I'd probably politely thank the guy for the offer before declining.
 

Wally

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I'm not quite as harsh on it as BIngram is, but the seller is not maximizing the opportunity to sell this amp, imho.
Is the tube chart still in the cab...with a date stamp? IF so and if the transformers are original and functional, then imho there is some sort of value there. The value might be in what are the parts worth, right, moreso than 'how much is this amp worth as a collectable amp?' IT is a vintage---READ: OLD--- player's amp. The cab is worth something to someone who has a 'date-matched' chassis that needs a cab. the transformers are worth something to someone...if they are original and functional....who needs them to complete an otherwise correct amp.
For a real player, the money might be better invested in a modern clone build, imho. IF someone was trying to sell it to me and couldn't set an asking price, I would offer them $400. IF they said no, I would then ask what they would take. Anything over $575 kills it for me....and that is if the tube chart is there and the trannies are original and good. Why so little? How much for a pro retweed? How much for a correct speaker? How much work is there to be done to get the amp working correctly? Add all of that up to the $550 and you will have maybe $1200-$1500 in it....and that is about as much or more than it will bring on the market IF you found someone who really liked it when you wanted to sell it.
IF the amp were in perfect working order and a player really liked it...based on experience with this type of amp....maybe it is worth $800??? IN PERFECT WORKING CONDITION.
 

B Ingram

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I'm not quite as harsh on it as BIngram is ...

I think Wally is spot-on. I was being a bit humorous about "buy him dinner & take the amp." But in fairness I did say, "buy him a nice dinner..." :laugh2:

Agreed for this amp, the originality and correct function of the transformers is everything. And that's because so little remains of anything else.

If you played it and absolutely loved it​ as it sits, then Wally's figures are about right. The amp has little-or-no resale value because of its condition, but if it gives you a sound you always wanted, there is some value to you to get it and enjoy it. It's just up to you to put a figure on what that enjoyment is worth.
 

CoyotesGator

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Jul 9, 2012
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BurstWurst, you're in the EU correct?

In general I'm with B and W.

The photos look horrendous and the description sounds worse.

A nice dinner and a couple bottles of nice wine.

It would be easy to spend much more than a quality clone is worth on this one.

edit: that is little or no original value left.

Im assuming that the chart is gone from the heat that damaged it.

$350 USD tops for me, and I really geek on these things, slightly more in the EU.
 

BurstWurst

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Jan 24, 2008
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Thanks again guys for the feedback. You all have actually been somewhat more optimistic than I have. I spoke with the seller yesterday on this. He did explain that he actually gigged with the amp for 17 years, AFTER the fire! He currently plays a Music Man 1-12 65 which he really likes. So, as a way of gauging his valuation of the Pro, I asked him if he felt the Pro was worth as much as the MM amp, to which he replied no. So, since I got my MM 1-12 65 for $275, and after again telling him, that I'd basically be buying the Pro on a "wing and a prayer", I asked what he thought of the $150 range, and he was receptive. So, I'm thinking that in this price range, it's become somewhat of a no-brainer. I think I'll grab it as a tinkering project. If I can't get it up and running myself, I'll likely send it to one of the more economical amp guys I know to see if he can do anything with it. Sure not gonna invest the kind of money my regular amp guru typically charges. I kinda wish that the chassis wasn't as wide as it is as one consideration was to build it into a (deluxe) 1-12 cab to end up with kind of a Super-Deluxe amp, or a head/cab setup (again, a single 12"). I just have no use for any amp with more than 1 speaker (well, maybe with amps with 10"s , but not a option given this amp's output tranny). Why I need a seventeenth amp is beyond me, but, some addictions die hard :##
 

Wally

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Well, alright then....that is the way to buy it. Imho, if the tube chart is still in the cab with a date stamp on it and if the trannies are original and functioning, then you got a bargain.
The Pro carried a P15N. I would not be afraid to use a more modern speaker in that amp....maybe an Eminence Big Ben???
 

MapleFlame

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Some of the later 58 Pro Amps were fitted with a Bassman Power transformer. Again, need to read the numbers on it. Ask if he can take out the chassis and give you backside picture. The output trannie if original should be a 8ohm. Agree with Wally, pictures make me feel woozie. Price seems ok where you are at. Cabinet is definitely worth a good amount if all panels are there.
 

Wally

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The 5E5A Pro should have an OT with the numbers 1846 on it....8 ohm OT. The Bassman had a 2 ohm OT number 45429. I would not want to run an 8 ohm speaker on a 2 ohm OT...and I don't think Leo would have done that either. ??
The PT in that 5E5A should read 1656.
 

MapleFlame

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The 5E5A Pro should have an OT with the numbers 1846 on it....8 ohm OT. The Bassman had a 2 ohm OT number 45429. I would not want to run an 8 ohm speaker on a 2 ohm OT...and I don't think Leo would have done that either. ??
The PT in that 5E5A should read 1656.

I have seen more than one 58-58 Pro with an 8087 Power trannie. If you read my earlier post, I said "This one should be an 8 ohm output". Two things Wally, you continue to have an ax to grind with me, you dont know everything. Do some research and you will find Pro's were given Bassman Power trannies. Those have nothing to do with output trannies ohm reading.
If you want to take this off the forum, let me know. I had enough of your bullshit
 
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