Please help! Which Burst?

Big Al · Mar 4, 2017

Color fading of finishes often reveal existing grain obscured by darker less translucent shades. More often after bonding with an admittedly underwelming looking guitar over time appreciation grows for it not only sonicly but visually. Has happened to me a few times.

Thundermtn · Mar 6, 2017

I was able to find a couple of older pics. They're relatively close to the same angle but with different lighting, but in the older pic with more intense lighting the figure shows/flashes less.

I e-mail our band photographer, I won't be able to get pics from her for a little while b/c her daughter was born premature by about 10 weeks last week and they're still in the hospital.

The first pic is circa late 2008 early '09, found on my old myspace page in the background of a pic. Really bright from being in a room with lots windows, 4 bulb fan lighting less than 5' away and camera flash on top of it. To my eye it looks only 85% developed in an indoor setting and with much less chatoyancy. I'm linking this so they can be looked at in separate browser windows side by side. https://myspace.com/368141596/mixes/classic-the-wild-bunch-439398/photo/167723806.

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The next is an insurance pic from 2013. Less dramatic lighting and taken with the same camera as the first pic from a foot or two of the same distance, and sort of close to the angle as the last pic will be. Even though the lighting is much less intense the thing is starting to really flash with a little more detail in the top being visible.

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This it what it looks like now. Here it shows a little more detail/flash than the second pic to me and has the same bright lighting as the first. I can take a current version the second pic though if need be with the same lighting, angle, and camera.

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I know pics don't always show the best in a head to head comparison on a flame maple top but they match what I remember as the guitar aged. It went from dull to decent looking.

Elmore · Mar 6, 2017

Second one.

Big Al · Mar 8, 2017

Thundermtn said:
I was able to find a couple of older pics. They're relatively close to the same angle but with different lighting, but in the older pic with more intense lighting the figure shows/flashes less.

I e-mail our band photographer, I won't be able to get pics from her for a little while b/c her daughter was born premature by about 10 weeks last week and they're still in the hospital.

The first pic is circa late 2008 early '09, found on my old myspace page in the background of a pic. Really bright from being in a room with lots windows, 4 bulb fan lighting less than 5' away and camera flash on top of it. To my eye it looks only 85% developed in an indoor setting and with much less chatoyancy. I'm linking this so they can be looked at in separate browser windows side by side. https://myspace.com/368141596/mixes/classic-the-wild-bunch-439398/photo/167723806. how to use print screen

The next is an insurance pic from 2013. Less dramatic lighting and taken with the same camera as the first pic from a foot or two of the same distance, and sort of close to the angle as the last pic will be. Even though the lighting is much less intense the thing is starting to really flash with a little more detail in the top being visible.capture

This it what it looks like now. Here it shows a little more detail/flash than the second pic to me and has the same bright lighting as the first. I can take a current version the second pic though if need be with the same lighting, angle, and camera. photo sharing websites

I know pics don't always show the best in a head to head comparison on a flame maple top but they match what I remember as the guitar aged. It went from dull to decent looking.

With respect, there is nothing that proves your erroneous notion present in those photo's. I can clearly see the flame, even in the lame shots. Almost everyone here knows how to position and photograph a flametop to enhance the effect. Best angle and diffused lighting to pop the grain like the last pic.

Your guitar did not change its figure pattern or intensity, your photography skills improved. With over 40 yrs working with figured maple I can say this with full confidence. The thing you claim cannot happen and did not happen.

mustachio · Mar 8, 2017

Second one. I don't prefer chevron flamed tops. And new knobs from Creamtone.

Thundermtn · Mar 8, 2017

Big Al said:
With respect, there is nothing that proves your erroneous notion present in those photo's. I can clearly see the flame, even in the lame shots. Almost everyone here knows how to position and photograph a flametop to enhance the effect. Best angle and diffused lighting to pop the grain like the last pic.

Your guitar did not change its figure pattern or intensity, your photography skills improved. With over 40 yrs working with figured maple I can say this with full confidence. The thing you claim cannot happen and did not happen.

Please explain these pics then. When i bought it, it had the visual look of a plaintop, so initially that's what i thought it was. I didn't know better at the time but it was always a flame top, just a poorly showing example, as it aged it did "pop". It's not my imagination. The pics prove it. What happened?

Outside, shaded daylight 2002-03, visually it is a plain top here just like I remember.

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Same time. Inside, amp pic with partial of guitar. Shows no flame.

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2004-05, some of the flame starts to show in indoor lighting, there were about dozen of these pics on that roll of film. I was clearly and desperately trying to get it to show as much flame as it had for the camera.

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Big Al · Mar 8, 2017

Shitty photography. Check out the various pictures of Pages number 1 you'll see the same. Check out the Les Paul in the Banner, Charlie has portrait shots of the same guitar which show deep 3D flames.

Thundermtn · Mar 8, 2017

Regardless of what I've provided with the pics, how do the best of the best modern gibson custom shop LP'S get spanked in the visual quality of top arena by most flamed true bursts that have had time to mature? Genetically the trees are the same in this small amount of time in the overall scope of evolution.

The tone of those vintage guitars isn't matched by modern stuff b/c the age of the wood, curing, and flexing over time. If a physical change in the wood makes a superior tone it would seem entirely possible that they won't remain 100% visually identical to new condition in perpetuity.

No two cuts of wood can be the same, all I'm saying is that there is a possibility of visual change, and that change will not be the same in all tops, but a certain type of figure that is flatter in grain has the ability to develop. The more shallow grain deviation of the quilty looking stuff has more ability to slightly light shift over time vs. a tight defined flames that shows well due to the pattern in the different grain orientation. Will it happen in all guitars to the extent that it did in mine, no, a very high number of them won't. Mine is a freak, but that type of grain pattern has more potential to light shift.

Big Al · Mar 8, 2017

Romantic but not true. Most new Bursts are as vivid and intense as the best vintage ones. More so in reality. None of this B.S. is true.

I'm not going to explain reality any more to someone who insists on an unreality based view. The only upside is your pride in your guitar. Long term ownership is a good thing.

Thundermtn · Mar 8, 2017

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this top. The pics are reality and people will believe what they want to believe. Owning the guitar from the dealer new until now, and having the pics to back up what happened prevent me from believing that a every guitar will look exactly the same as new from day one to the end of time.

The dozen +/- pics with me trying to get it to show flame in '04-'05 and that was the best I could get, vs. the insurance pic where all I was trying to show was a yellow LP guitar in the frame tells the story. If it looked like it does now from day one I would not of had buyers remorse and there would have been a heck of a lot more pics of it in new condition.

Anyway, no hard feelings. :cheers:

Pellman73 · Mar 8, 2017

I'd bet a lot has to do with the fact that cameras have gotten better and better in the last 12 years and you are getting better at taking pics. The objective evidence you provided at least supports that theory. You can't see much in those old blurry pics.

when I was at NAMM spent some time talking to the wood supplier dude all about flames and stuff and My take it the flame is the flame. It's part of the wood, like grain. It happened when the tree done growed up. I don't think it changes with time.

Please help! Which Burst?

Big Al

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Elmore

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mustachio

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