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Tailpiece on newer Historics

Rare Form

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Sorry, if I am not aware of this, but my last Historic was a 2010 R0 50th Ann. I notice that it has the tailpiece I have been used to where there is a good amount of play where the tailpiece is held by the studs. I just got a great 2014 R0 and I notice that the tailpiece fits snuggly into the studs (if I remove the strings the tailpiece does not fall out). However, I am noticing that it holds the tailpiece about 1/16" lower when screwed down on the guitar and I am noticing that the string compliance is a bit tighter than what I have noticed with other Historics I have owned. Compared to my 50th Ann. R0, the new one feels tighter and not as easy to play. Does anyone know if I am describing something noticed by others with newer Historics, or if there is something else going on here. I am not sure if I want to top wrap with this guitar as the compliance is not that too far off, but it is somewhat noticeable.

Thanks
 

Minibucker

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It might be the different tailpiece studs and the space within the flanges. IIRC, the 2010 TP studs were the stock Gibson brass one which have more space/play in the flanges, whereas more recent ones from 2012 or 2013 on have steel studs with tighter flanges. So naturally the tighter flanges will sit the tailpiece a bit lower in the body. If it's too low, there's nothing wrong with backing the studies out a few threads and raising it a little bit. Some actually prefer this when trying to match the angle behind the bridge to the 17˚ string pitch at the nut-to-headstock.
 

Rare Form

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Thanks. I guess I could raise the tailpiece a bit, but I thought that it should be down on the body for best tone, but maybe with the longer studs, raising a bit may not hurt it too much?
 

Minibucker

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Thanks. I guess I could raise the tailpiece a bit, but I thought that it should be down on the body for best tone, but maybe with the longer studs, raising a bit may not hurt it too much?
Some folks debate which 'sounds better'...the tailpiece all the way down for best apparent coupling (the flanges are all that contact the body anyway), or whether there's better overall 'vibrance' or balance to the guitar's neck and body when the angle is closer to that of the headstock/nut. I kind of do both with mine...in that I have the tailpiece studs backed out a few threads, but use spacers underneath the flanges so that they're still screwed down tight. I use the inserts that came with this Faber system:

http://www.faberusa.com/product-category/faber-tone-lock/faber-tone-lock-studs-spacers/

But when it comes down to it, I'm personally more of a subscriber to studs out a few threads for better overall balance and playability. You're now probably getting better coupling between the tailpiece and studs anyway if the flanges are more snug.
 

Rare Form

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Thanks. Great info. I went to the site. Which ones to get small, medium, large? If I only want to back off about a few threads, my guess would be the small? How do you install them? Do you just take the studs out and put the spacer down over the hole and then put the studs back in? How do they look?
 

Minibucker

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Thanks. Great info. I went to the site. Which ones to get small, medium, large? If I only want to back off about a few threads, my guess would be the small? How do you install them? Do you just take the studs out and put the spacer down over the hole and then put the studs back in? How do they look?
For mine, I use the small. It's about the equivalent of 2-ish threads. Yes, you put the spacer in and just tighten your stud over it.


21kge1g.jpg


They're hard to even notice when in.
 

Big Al

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I use long studs which are in contact with the body when screwed in all the way so moe than the flange alone makes for better coupling. I also top wrap and believe the reduced angle is mostly responsible for the pleasing tone I notice as the harsh, high harptones behind the bridge are lowered when the angle is reduced.
 

Rare Form

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I wonder how much tone is going to get lost if I just back the studs off a couple of turns to reduce the angle at the tailpiece. I also notice that it is really hard to turn the thumb-wheel on the bridge now because there is so much angle. However, no strings are close to touching the bridge. I think with the tighter flanges on the new studs, it pushes the tailpiece further down. Not sure this is such a great idea because now it is a stiffer guitar to play. I know that the vintage ones were like this which is why we see a lot of the vintage ones with the tailpiece raised or some that are top wrapped.
 

CAGinLA

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I wonder how much tone is going to get lost if I just back the studs off a couple of turns to reduce the angle at the tailpiece. I also notice that it is really hard to turn the thumb-wheel on the bridge now because there is so much angle. However, no strings are close to touching the bridge. I think with the tighter flanges on the new studs, it pushes the tailpiece further down. Not sure this is such a great idea because now it is a stiffer guitar to play. I know that the vintage ones were like this which is why we see a lot of the vintage ones with the tailpiece raised or some that are top wrapped.

Won't change the tone in my experience, just the feel.

Just experiment to find what works best for you - it's a reversible mod. :)
 

Rare Form

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Yeah, it is a strange thing to get used to, although minor. My 50th Ann. R0 (in my avatar) has everything set up identical and the tailpiece is about 1/16" higher simply because of the play in the flanges with the older style studs. This is enough play for the strings to pull the bar up to the top part of the flange giving it that little bit higher height while the studs are all the way down on the guitar. The difference in feel between the two is very similar but the 2014 is a bit stiffer feel. I wanted to get the 2014 because I do not want to play the 50th Ann. out because it is a 50th Ann. and it is a Preproduction and for 2010 is an amazing specimen of a Historic Les Paul. Interestingly the new 2014 and the 2010 both weigh exactly 8lbs 3oz. My kind of guitar!
 

Grayd8

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Feb 6, 2016
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I wonder how much tone is going to get lost if I just back the studs off a couple of turns to reduce the angle at the tailpiece. I also notice that it is really hard to turn the thumb-wheel on the bridge now because there is so much angle. However, no strings are close to touching the bridge. I think with the tighter flanges on the new studs, it pushes the tailpiece further down. Not sure this is such a great idea because now it is a stiffer guitar to play. I know that the vintage ones were like this which is why we see a lot of the vintage ones with the tailpiece raised or some that are top wrapped.

The entire purpose of the tailpiece is to adjust string tension. I've played around with a lot of different tailpiece heights over the years, on multiple LP's. The only real difference to me is string tension and sore fingers. I like my action at around 1/16 and my relief around .006, for me that means I have to raise the tailpiece around 1/32" or the tension is a bit too floppy.

Luckily the Faber tone lock has multiple spacers, so I can raise it a bit without loosing the solid coupling.
 

Kris Ford

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Jan 6, 2007
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I wonder how much tone is going to get lost if I just back the studs off a couple of turns to reduce the angle at the tailpiece.
The answer is NONE!
There's threads for a reason...use 'em!!:peace2 It's ok to raise the TP!!
 

tdarian

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Sounded exactly the same up or decked on both of mine. I think the Faber spacers make things look better and don't alter the tone from I could hear.
 

Minibucker

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Frankly, even though I use the faber spacers, I think the length of the studs as well as how snug they are in the threading contribute more tonally than the coupling or no coupling at the bottom flange. It certainly made a difference on my ES-335, which I still leave unscrewed a few threads with no spacers.
 
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