Why do Norlins Get a Bad Rap?

Kris Ford · Dec 10, 2015

Big Al said:
All one has to do is grab one that has been taken care of and not abused and it is easy to see why so many thousands were sold.

One like this well loved '77 Standard

To date the best LP I've ever owned.:salude

Marcel M · Dec 10, 2015

Big Al said:
No, no, no, nooo. That is exactly what I mean by MYTH. They did not use inferior material or construction methods. They were modern evolutions, so to speak. Everyone of the changes was done to "improve" something that maybe didn't need improving. They still are fully professional, wonderfully expressive guitars. All one has to do is grab one that has been taken care of and not abused and it is easy to see why so many thousands were sold.

I totally get that a lot of bullshit is perpetuated about Norlin era instruments because of the 50s Gibson vintage craze. I also totally get that outside of these vintage standards we now hold for Gibson (i.e. one piece necks, no laminates, etc.) these are non issues with other high end companies (and even older high end Gibson models, as you have said). I also totally agree that Norlin era instruments will more than do the job (lots of my friends/band's I listen to use them and love them). But my understanding of the management during the Norlin era, was that Gibson was having money issues, and costs were cut left and right. Is this a myth? I don't disagree that all of these changes were done to improve, but I believe Norlin was looking to improve designs within cost cutting constraints, so they could only get so far. This may not translate to tone or even playability, but it does have something to do with "quality craftsmanship." Which, at the end of the day, you really don't have to care about at all. But if any of what I said is true, if one were to draw the conclusion that the "craftsmanship is less than," I wouldn't call that "myth."

J T · Dec 10, 2015

Gibson re-issued the Pete Townshend deluxe (the ones with the big numbers on them) in 2006. But beware of buying these used because around that time thanks to unscrupulous ebay seller, he produced dozens if not more, fakes of these models. So they are out there.

Big Al · Dec 11, 2015

Marcel M said:
I totally get that a lot of bullshit is perpetuated about Norlin era instruments because of the 50s Gibson vintage craze. I also totally get that outside of these vintage standards we now hold for Gibson (i.e. one piece necks, no laminates, etc.) these are non issues with other high end companies (and even older high end Gibson models, as you have said). I also totally agree that Norlin era instruments will more than do the job (lots of my friends/band's I listen to use them and love them). But my understanding of the management during the Norlin era, was that Gibson was having money issues, and costs were cut left and right. Is this a myth? I don't disagree that all of these changes were done to improve, but I believe Norlin was looking to improve designs within cost cutting constraints, so they could only get so far. This may not translate to tone or even playability, but it does have something to do with "quality craftsmanship." Which, at the end of the day, you really don't have to care about at all. But if any of what I said is true, if one were to draw the conclusion that the "craftsmanship is less than," I wouldn't call that "myth."

I have no idea of what you mean. Most of what you are implying is wrong and your conclusion based on untrue "facts" is myth. I can tell you that Gibson made profit and was not having "money issues". Norlin was. Gibson profits funded Norlins other enterprises.

Please enlighten me on the cost cutting features as most every change made was more expensive to do. Crossband laminate bodies were dropped to save money, three piece necks for the same reason.
The rocker/short tenon was implemented to speed prodution and may have cost less in labor. This is the only one I can think of, yet it isn't bad or harmful to tone as neck joint failure is rare if it ever has happend and judging by the guitars, tone wasn't lost so much as shifted a tiny bit away from previous modified long tenon. I still cannot always tell by tone alone which is which. Never found anyone who could.

I'll leave it at this. NORLIN ERA LES PAULS ARE TOP GRADE MODERN INTERPITATIONS FROM 70's & 80's.
A good way to view them is by looking at my friend Marv Lamb, [former shop foreman at Gibson] company Heritage Guitars, made much like the Norlin Era Gibsons. They are viewed as high quality.:hmm

Maplehead872 · Dec 11, 2015

Marcel M said:
I totally get that a lot of bullshit is perpetuated about Norlin era instruments because of the 50s Gibson vintage craze. I also totally get that outside of these vintage standards we now hold for Gibson (i.e. one piece necks, no laminates, etc.) these are non issues with other high end companies (and even older high end Gibson models, as you have said). I also totally agree that Norlin era instruments will more than do the job (lots of my friends/band's I listen to use them and love them). But my understanding of the management during the Norlin era, was that Gibson was having money issues, and costs were cut left and right. Is this a myth? I don't disagree that all of these changes were done to improve, but I believe Norlin was looking to improve designs within cost cutting constraints, so they could only get so far. This may not translate to tone or even playability, but it does have something to do with "quality craftsmanship." Which, at the end of the day, you really don't have to care about at all. But if any of what I said is true, if one were to draw the conclusion that the "craftsmanship is less than," I wouldn't call that "myth."

That's just it, the craftsmanship wasn't less it was different and thought for the better in the Norlin days. CMI had money issues also,what do you think they sold it to Norlin for.

Progrocker111 · Dec 16, 2015

I dont think that 70-74/75s Les Pauls have really way worse build quality than late 60s ones. Dont forget that especially 70-72s have still the same electronics, same pickups, same woods and materials, same hardware, similar neck angles etc., just like more famous late 60s Les Pauls. Only real difference is 3 piece neck and pancake body, which i dont think contributesd much to the tone. So in fact early 70s Norlins could be nearly identical sounding guitars to late 60s ones. The very early 70 and 71s can even have fairly nicely carved tops too.

The "real" Norlin era began in 75 with the move to new opened factory in Nashville (short neck tenon, maple necks, cheaper electronics, more plastic finishes, real dome tops etc). But these ones can be greatly used especially for heavier hardrock etc. too with their tighter and more focused tone.

renderit · Dec 16, 2015

Progrocker111 said:
I dont think that 70-74/75s Les Pauls have really way worse build quality than late 60s ones. Dont forget that especially 70-72s have still the same electronics, same pickups, same woods and materials, same hardware, similar neck angles etc., just like more famous late 60s Les Pauls. Only real difference is 3 piece neck and pancake body, which i dont think contributesd much to the tone. So in fact early 70s Norlins could be nearly identical sounding guitars to late 60s ones. The very early 70 and 71s can even have fairly nicely carved tops too.

The "real" Norlin era began in 75 with the move to new opened factory in Nashville (short neck tenon, maple necks, cheaper electronics, more plastic finishes, real dome tops etc). But these ones can be greatly used especially for heavier hardrock etc. too with their tighter and more focused tone.

I always felt they were at least partially responsible for the late 70's to mid eighties 'style' of music. I liked it fine. Norlins DO hard rock! Please don't take that to mean I think they don't do anything else. That's not what I am sayin'...

Progrocker111 · Dec 16, 2015

renderit said:
I always felt they were at least partially responsible for the late 70's to mid eighties 'style' of music. I liked it fine. Norlins DO hard rock! Please don't take that to mean I think they don't do anything else. That's not what I am sayin'...

Yes, their signature tone is really to be heard in most late 70s early 80s hardrock and metal music. :dude:

Kris Ford · Dec 16, 2015

Progrocker111 said:
Yes, their signature tone is really to be heard in most late 70s early 80s hardrock and metal music. :dude:

HELL YES it is!:yah:yah

Bullfrog · Dec 16, 2015

I've owned Norlin SG's before. They were just as good as any other era Gibsons I've owned.

Edward · Dec 16, 2015

Great read here ...love hearing the voices of experience with level, reasoned approaches that, to my pea brain, seem grounded in objectivity and logic!

Question: Why are Norlins typically at 10+ lbs?

Sure I see the occasional "light" one (um, 9.8 lbs

), but the overwhelming number of them were north or 10. Not that this is a magic number, mind you, but that consistency in weight always puzzled me given the eras both prior and post Norlin Gibson are squarely in the sub-10 range; and at least anecdotally, typically in the low 9s. What made Norlins (typically) so heavy, and why?

Edward

Wilko · Dec 16, 2015

The weight changed in the late 60s when according to some who were there (and their words in a few books) saying that the source of the wood changed.

renderit · Dec 16, 2015

Edward said:
Great read here ...love hearing the voices of experience with level, reasoned approaches that, to my pea brain, seem grounded in objectivity and logic!

Question: Why are Norlins typically at 10+ lbs?

Sure I see the occasional "light" one (um, 9.8 lbs ), but the overwhelming number of them were north or 10. Not that this is a magic number, mind you, but that consistency in weight always puzzled me given the eras both prior and post Norlin Gibson are squarely in the sub-10 range; and at least anecdotally, typically in the low 9s. What made Norlins (typically) so heavy, and why?

Edward

THAT! That is the primary reason I no longer own a Norlin. I am sure there were light ones. I never found one...

Kris Ford · Dec 16, 2015

My '76 Les Paul Deluxe is 9.29 pounds on a calibrated postal scale...

renderit · Dec 16, 2015

Kris Ford said:
My '76 Les Paul Deluxe is 9.29 pounds on a calibrated postal scale...

That is a lightweight. How bout on a scale that's not postal? The custom I had just about left a wet spot if you set it down! Damn. Well over 10 pounds. Never had a good scale back then.

Progrocker111 · Dec 17, 2015

Kris Ford said:
My '76 Les Paul Deluxe is 9.29 pounds on a calibrated postal scale...

Interesting is, that most Deluxes are a bit lighter in average than Customs from the same years. :hmm

Big Al · Dec 17, 2015

Bullfrog said:
I've owned Norlin SG's before. They were just as good as any other era Gibsons I've owned.

Not all of them. The SG line was the one model that was brutalized under Norlins watch. The SG100, 200 and whatnot with the Melodymaker pickups are not near the quality of the SG Melodymaker they replaced but the SG Standards and Customs suffered to when they went to a top rout controls on a plastic plate, fingerboards lifted up off the body, clumsy necks with little pitch. These were bad guitars and people howled. The later ones with the small block inlays returned to better build quality and yes, they are quite good musical instruments. Still the damage was done and that reputation stained the whole line.

Nobody has mentioned the last Norlin Era Gibsons. The Les Pauls are really nice. Dish carve, one piece body and neck w/small headstock. Shaw PAF Humbuckers and sometimes beautiful two piece tops make for a great guitar and the Deluxe in this version is the best model Deluxe IMO. The Wine Red ones are often flamed.

Kris Ford · Dec 17, 2015

Big Al said:
Not all of them. The SG line was the one model that was brutalized under Norlins watch. The SG100, 200 and whatnot with the Melodymaker pickups are not near the quality of the SG Melodymaker they replaced but the SG Standards and Customs suffered to when they went to a top rout controls on a plastic plate, fingerboards lifted up off the body, clumsy necks with little pitch. These were bad guitars and people howled. The later ones with the small block inlays returned to better build quality and yes, they are quite good musical instruments. Still the damage was done and that reputation stained the whole line.

Nobody has mentioned the last Norlin Era Gibsons. The Les Pauls are really nice. Dish carve, one piece body and neck w/small headstock. Shaw PAF Humbuckers and sometimes beautiful two piece tops make for a great guitar and the Deluxe in this version is the best model Deluxe IMO. The Wine Red ones are often flamed.

I have one of those SGs AL, a '71 Deluxe, and despite all that, sounds killer! But the neck is slim..skinny nut, but round..like a snow shovel handle.
Was that a consumer driven feature at the time, a desire for skinny necks, since they had SGS with them from late '65 to '79..:hmm My old '74 SG and '76 have more substance than the '71 did..

RJLII · Dec 17, 2015

I guess I'll limit my commentary to Norlin Les Pauls. I find them less desirable due to Maple necks, thin neck carves, volutes, large headstocks, multi-piece tops that are often poorly matched, pancake and other super heavy multi-piece bodies, and pickups that are generally way too hot. I'm not a chrome hardware guy either (prefer nickel).

All that said, the Les Paul that made the biggest impression on me was a '76 Standard Tri-Burst my college roommate had. Thin Maple neck, volute, and all the rest. Still, it sounded great and I hadn't discovered fat mahogany necks yet so didn't know any better. All my current Les Pauls are Historic models (R6, B7, R8) and I've grown accustomed to those. Norlins just feel wrong to me now, mostly due to the neck carves.

Progrocker111 · Dec 18, 2015

RJLII said:
and pickups that are generally way too hot.

Rather contrary, most used T-Tops are especially clear sounding pickups with output rather on the lower side.

Why do Norlins Get a Bad Rap?

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