Gibson quality control

Is there not a quality control sign off card that came with your guitar?
I feel the person who signed off on the final inspection has some splaining to doooo! :2cool

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SheltonGuitar said:

The pics were posted as a poor humorous attempt to show quantity over quality from the persepctive of a Joe Blow off the street. You aready knew that but wanted to take a little jab at a pot stirer talking out his arse. Let me know if I'm confused. I like to be sure of the facts.

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Kevin from Gibson Custom Shop here. Actually no; it was a sincere question. I do my best to keep the emotions out of the forum and be informative. With so many divisions under the Gibson name, it's really common for even our customers to know what's made where sometimes. Even the most negative members of this forum care enough about what we do to invest some of their time talking about our guitars, so I think respect is in order. Thanks.....

Shantrick said:

Is there not a quality control sign off card that came with your guitar?
I feel the person who signed off on the final inspection has some splaining to doooo! :2cool

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yes..there's a set of initials hand-written at several key points of the guitar's build and that card stays with the guitar throughout the entire build. Whenever we have a serial number to cross reference against the checklist (in the case of a quality issue), the person who signed off that a particular point is to our standards is held accountable. I hope that's helpful.....thanks. Kevin from Gibson Custom Shop.

customshop2 said:

yes..there's a set of initials hand-written at several key points of the guitar's build and that card stays with the guitar throughout the entire build. Whenever we have a serial number to cross reference against the checklist (in the case of a quality issue), the person who signed off that a particular point is to our standards is held accountable. I hope that's helpful.....thanks. Kevin from Gibson Custom Shop.

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Hi Kevin,

I PM'ed you regarding an issue I had with a MTM that I received recently.

Can you please let me know if you have received it?

Thank you!

In case anyone is interested this is the finished replacement.


The color is pretty close....I would have expected a bit browner or tea - ish. it is supposed to be a Slow Iced Tea Fade.

With some interesting accents I do not see. Below it is the compare shot.

This is it.....

they did it right....thanx Matt

A flame thrower for sure....plays very nice....

but I don't "Love" the Fretboard....but that's fine....great top

Looks great! Like it a lot.

I own a PRS with a finish flaw.
It has a crack (yes, a real crack in the finish on a PRS) and a tiny "dimple" or "hole" associated with it.
And I don't care.
I can't hear the finish flaw.

:headbange

renderit said:

Gibson QC sucked on finish. Never really got it right on all the 13 and 14's I have. I have NEVER seen ANY without major orange peel. Show me a light reflected off the sides of your headstock if you want to call me a liar. Of course that is the new "acceptable" just look at cars. The F-holes mentioned above are the normal coming out of Memphis. The fuzz left in them looks like a chain saw was used to cut them and somebody left the little piece of 220 used to clean the underside edges out in the smoking area. And don't start me on how many bridges I have that need to have the parts replaced because they got a little overactive notching the strings and that is what limits setting the action where I want it, not to mention requiring the whole bridge be raised.

Now I love my 13's and 14's. Won't trade 'em or sell 'em. They sound silly fantastic and 3 feet away look absolutely beautiful. They gots mojo out the wazoo. But they are so far from the perfect that people are claiming here it hurts. Look, my latest TH has a very nice finish. Almost zero orange peel. It has been worked almost right. Actually very similar to old. But sanding marks are there when you look close.

"Nothing dramatic" was the term used above. It's true. "But nothing that high in quality" is true as well. I can find you $500 and lower guitars in any GC that have better finish work.

When I am paying what I have paid over the last 3 years I expect much better effort from Gibson. Period.

Edit post: That said I am not a snob. I just bought another one.

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I think you pretty well hit the nail on the head. I've noticed on mine that the finish where the neck meets the body, on both sides, could have been buffed a little better and there is a small about of orange peel on the back contour by the jack plate. But I knew going in that it probably wasn't going to to spotless, like a PRS. But for the money shouldn't they be?

Sct13 said:

This is it.....

they did it right....thanx Matt

A flame thrower for sure....plays very nice....

but I don't "Love" the Fretboard....but that's fine....great top

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Gorgeous guitar! It really is very reminiscent of the original one it replaces. Glad you are happy with it!

I'm with you on this one. I recently aquired a 2015 Les Paul ES that has some finishig issues; speckles of white paint around the f hole and poorly fitting pickup surrounds. On guitar of this cost, that's not really acceptable; I have a Korean built Hofner at a sixth of the cost where the finish is better. Its quite frustrating and seems like Gibson are rather taking their customers for granted.

NickD said:

Posted in here because most of the guitars I'm talking about are custom shop/historic, but is across the board really.

I've had a few recent Gibsons, either new or nearly new with no changes made and I've noticed some poor quality control.

Now my job is mainly investigating, repairing and mitigating errors and issues, so I appreciate that mistakes happen. The craftsmanship that went into my Gibsons, especially the custom shop, is undeniable, they are great guitars. However each of them had had one error (strangely just one, no more). One had a poor (uneven with too much paint and really badly masked) finish where the paint meets the nut that I have had to remedy, another has the very last fret poorly finished, with obvious file marks and two have had poorly cut nuts on the treble shrings - both were cut too low - so I have had to remedy them after getting the guitars.

It feels like Gibson are letting themselves down, they are making good guitars, made by people wha are good at what they do, but obviously aren't being checked correctly at the end of the manufacturing process. These are very very good guitars, they play great, they sound great and they look great, but for some easily solved small issues they could be faultless.

Am I alone in this, or are other people finding the same kind of issues?

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Axel said:

I've owned both Customshop and USA production Gibsons (a Customshop Les Paul Junior, a USA Les Paul Classic – both gone now – and currently a Trini Lopez which says Customshop on the headstock but I don't think it's the same Customshop as the Customshop Les Pauls are built in). All of them have been 'perfect', as in they've played perfectly from the box. None of them has any orange peel, all of them has had file marks on the fretboard and/or binding. The Les Pauls' backs have never been mirror flat.

I've played a few PRS's and they had no imperfections, the fretboards were always extremely well sanded, no filemarks anywhere, the bodies were as identical in finish quality like they were cast in wood. They didn't inspire me at all and the perfection was a huge factor in why. Those tiny imperfections of the Gibsons I've owned show that a human hand was involved in the build, to me that's not flaws, more like personality. Then again, I wouldn't accept 'personality' that affected playability.

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+1! Yeah, the little imperfections do show that "made by hands" quality and I like that. But if the imperfections affected playability then that's another story.

I have a 2013 Les Paul Standard who's serial number is heavily obscured by thick varnish but which was issued with an incorrect certificate by a reputable merchant in Manchester UK. I checked the serial number on the supplied certificate (i.e. on Guitar Dater) and this corresponds to another Les Paul Standard from a similar batch produced two months later at the Nashville Tennessee plant. Presumably the owner of that Gibson has my certificate and possibly a similar issue with the headstock varnish obscuring the S/N. In all other respects this LP Standard seems to be very well finished but has anyone else experienced similar Serial No. issues caused by a bad varnish job ?

My slightly odd experience...
...after an age of searching found a 2018 R9 I had to have. Sounds great, plays great, personally love the top. At home on closer inspection, missing a screw from a tuner - pretty weird but not the end of the world!

Got to say I'm loving my first Custom Shop guitar. Considering shifting my USAs for another...

I own a 2008 Gibson Les Paul Custom, a 2017 R9 and a 2018 SG Custom. I have owned core PRS's from '98 thru '04. The Gibson Custom Shop guitars that I own are on-par with the PRS's I have owned. Gibson gets their credit from my woodshed.

DanD said:

+1

Some imperfections are probably due to work force related production standards and new or under skilled employees maybe even carelessness in some cases. Hell could be a Friday afternoon or Monday morning guitar...

Just as stated above this is what gives these guitars the 'personality' that others lack. Personality goes a long way... :dude:

It's also the reason you play before you pay and it's the reason we search out the 'one'. When you find that 'one' guitar that speaks to you, you snatch it up if possible.

They do have a lot of hands on time while they are being built. I don't mind the human factor as long as it doesn't affect playability.

The nuts and set up get addressed on all my guitars at the first string change. Most new Gibsons I've bought were set up OK and playable out of the box. I've never purchased a new Gibson that didn't need a tweak or two but to me that's part of the personality of a Gibson and part of tailoring the guitar to my needs. It's the personal involvement factor. Addressing these minor issues gives the owner 'sweat equity' and involvement with the instrument. Make 'em perfect and take that away and I'll be less happy than I am now. :dang

It's a lot like buying a new HD. They also require the owners personal involvement. It's not five minutes into the ride before you start thinking of what is going to be improved, changed to fit your personal needs, or just upgraded with better parts.

The personal involvement factor adds character and value in my book. eace2

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I agree. ^ Since none of us should expect any guitar bought new to be set up to what we personally prefer, I don't let that part bother me. What does bother me is if the nut is incorrectly cut, or the neck cannot be adjusted to set up as I prefer them to be, if the frets are not ALL correctly dressed, and of course being able to strobe a guitar and get correct intonation.


While I look at everything and go down a personal check list, I live in a place where nothing I desire is found in our local music stores, so I have no choice but to use the internet. However, communication here and finding someone who is willing to spend the time with me on a phone, with the actual guitar in his hands, to look for what I ask about, is absolutely key for me.

My 2018 R9 is everything I want in a RI LP. I bought that in October of 2018. In this past May, I found a Purple Fadeburst LP Custom Pro offered exclusively by MF and GC, and thought I would take a chance. I was so pleased with the one I received, I couldn't believe my luck. The guitar is as good as my R9 and I love the neck on it. There is nothing about it that I do not like.

Then in June, I found that a Tele I had, was not going to work out for our out door work. For the first time in decades, I had to run the racks in our local GC for an inexpensive LP. I found one that was built and would set up as well as my Custom Shop Gibsons do.

Add to these, a RI '63 335 which I bought, sent to Joe Glaser's for a look see, and re-plek, which it needed and now I have 4 Gibson's with no problem that would cause me to sell it. I kept the 335, prior to sending it in for some tweaks, as it had a sound, sustain, and neck feeling which I didn't want to lose.

The personal involvement factor, imho, is absolutely necessary. Without it, I believe that you don't know the guitar you are either buying or just bought. It's kind of like ordering a bride through mail order, and have to take what you get without any personal involvement. :##

C-4 said:

The personal involvement factor, imho, is absolutely necessary. Without it, I believe that you don't know the guitar you are either buying or just bought. It's kind of like ordering a bride through mail order, and have to take what you get without any personal involvement. :##

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The good thing is that people are different. Sorry but I have to disagree with you!

The comparison between the bride and how you handle your guitars is kind of funny and disturbing at the same time.
According to your personal involvement with guitars it would mean that your bride needs to be sent to plastic surgery and to a psychiatrist to match your needs.
Please don't take it too serious it just crossed my mind!

But I honestly do disagree with your opinion. I do believe that everybody spending five grand for a guitar has the right to expect a flawless, pefectly set up and ready to play instrument out of the box. The set up may not be your personal preference but it has to be correct with perfect intonation, string height, etc.
We are very lucky that we belong to a group of people that can afford such instruments. Many folks out there can only dream about owning a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul. And some of us even have several in their possessions.
Sometimes I do get the feeling that we see it as ONLY 5000 Dollars. Gibson Custom Shop Guitars are not VW Beetles, they are the Rolls Royces out there.
And would you say the same about your personal involvement if you would have bought a Rolls Royce?
Don't get me wrong I do love the Gibson Custom Shop Les Pauls. Great great guitars and they are getting better and better. I also do understand what you mean with "character" and "personality" regarding these guitars. That's a part of why I do play Gibson and not other brands (I guess you know which).

But we should take everybody serious that expects a perfect guitar in every single way when spending so much money.

Thanks for "listening"

BurstFan said:

The good thing is that people are different. Sorry but I have to disagree with you!

The comparison between the bride and how you handle your guitars is kind of funny and disturbing at the same time.
According to your personal involvement with guitars it would mean that your bride needs to be sent to plastic surgery and to a psychiatrist to match your needs.
Please don't take it too serious it just crossed my mind!

But I honestly do disagree with your opinion. I do believe that everybody spending five grand for a guitar has the right to expect a flawless, pefectly set up and ready to play instrument out of the box. The set up may not be your personal preference but it has to be correct with perfect intonation, string height, etc.
We are very lucky that we belong to a group of people that can afford such instruments. Many folks out there can only dream about owning a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul. And some of us even have several in their possessions.
Sometimes I do get the feeling that we see it as ONLY 5000 Dollars. Gibson Custom Shop Guitars are not VW Beetles, they are the Rolls Royces out there.
And would you say the same about your personal involvement if you would have bought a Rolls Royce?
Don't get me wrong I do love the Gibson Custom Shop Les Pauls. Great great guitars and they are getting better and better. I also do understand what you mean with "character" and "personality" regarding these guitars. That's a part of why I do play Gibson and not other brands (I guess you know which).

But we should take everybody serious that expects a perfect guitar in every single way when spending so much money.

Thanks for "listening"

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Unless you have a guitar custom made for you personally, that is an unrealistic expectation. While I only own 4 Historic Les Pauls, I have had my hands on over 100, new as unboxed, due to my long association with the HOG and other shops besides managing the guitar dept at our GC in the 2000's until I resumed touring gigs.

I HAVE NEVER FOUND ONE I COULD NOT TAKE OUT AS SHIPPED AND GIG OR RECORD WITH CONFIDENCE!

This notion that they have bad quality frets, nuts and setups out of the box has become an Internet myth perpetuated by overly anal fussbudgets with little, or no, real experience with these guitars and their construction.

Often posting macro photos of microscopic evidence of human hand work, or natural consequences of inconsistent organic materials crafted together with metal and plastics covered in thin lacquer, only to cry foul, declare it evidence of declining "quality issues" and add yet more ignorant fuel to a myth driven fire, fanning the bullshit flames of sanctimonious outrage, joined by countless numbers of interweb parrots to create a reality based on repeated nonsense followed by the rallying cry of "for this money I expect perfection".

Recent bombardments by naysayers with a clear anti Gibson agenda have appeared on forums to gain traction and steamroll into false perceptions of an overpriced product of poor quality, repeat the lie enough it becomes accepted reality. Unknowing newcomers looking for clarity find themselves receiveing unqualified advice from parrots reguritating vomitus perceived untruths as facts, confusing matters further.

Again, I have not found an out of the box Custom Shop Les Paul I could not use as is, in the most demanding situations. I have not found bad frets, improperly installed nuts or flawed instuments. They come with fully functional factory spec setups, meant to appeal to the general masses and play fine. The nature of this type instrument is to allow for the personal tweaks and fine tuned FINAL setups that any demanding player would make to have a personal high quality musical instrument.

I'm not saying the oddball defective guitar doesn't find it's way out of the factory, but truely defective examples as witnessed here are the exception, not the norm.

BurstFan said:

The good thing is that people are different. Sorry but I have to disagree with you!

The comparison between the bride and how you handle your guitars is kind of funny and disturbing at the same time.
According to your personal involvement with guitars it would mean that your bride needs to be sent to plastic surgery and to a psychiatrist to match your needs.
Please don't take it too serious it just crossed my mind!

But I honestly do disagree with your opinion. I do believe that everybody spending five grand for a guitar has the right to expect a flawless, pefectly set up and ready to play instrument out of the box. The set up may not be your personal preference but it has to be correct with perfect intonation, string height, etc.
We are very lucky that we belong to a group of people that can afford such instruments. Many folks out there can only dream about owning a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul. And some of us even have several in their possessions.
Sometimes I do get the feeling that we see it as ONLY 5000 Dollars. Gibson Custom Shop Guitars are not VW Beetles, they are the Rolls Royces out there.
And would you say the same about your personal involvement if you would have bought a Rolls Royce?
Don't get me wrong I do love the Gibson Custom Shop Les Pauls. Great great guitars and they are getting better and better. I also do understand what you mean with "character" and "personality" regarding these guitars. That's a part of why I do play Gibson and not other brands (I guess you know which).

But we should take everybody serious that expects a perfect guitar in every single way when spending so much money.

Thanks for "listening"

Click to expand...

Unless you have a guitar custom made for you personally, that is an unrealistic expectation. While I only own 4 Historic Les Pauls, I have had my hands on over 100, new as unboxed, due to my long association with the HOG and other shops besides managing the guitar dept at our GC in the 2000's until I resumed touring gigs.

I HAVE NEVER FOUND ONE I COULD NOT TAKE OUT AS SHIPPED AND GIG OR RECORD WITH CONFIDENCE!

This notion that they have bad quality frets, nuts and setups out of the box has become an Internet myth perpetuated by overly anal fussbudgets with little, or no, real experience with these guitars and their construction.

Often posting macro photos of microscopic evidence of human hand work, or natural consequences of inconsistent organic materials crafted together with metal and plastics covered in thin lacquer, only to cry foul, declare it evidence of declining "quality issues" and add yet more ignorant fuel to a myth driven fire, fanning the bullshit flames of sanctimonious outrage, joined by countless numbers of interweb parrots to create a reality based on repeated nonsense followed by the rallying cry of "for this money I expect perfection".

Recent bombardments by naysayers with a clear anti Gibson agenda have appeared on forums to gain traction and steamroll into false perceptions of an overpriced product of poor quality, repeat the lie enough it becomes accepted reality. Unknowing newcomers looking for clarity find themselves receiveing unqualified advice from parrots reguritating vomitus perceived untruths as facts, confusing matters further.

Again, I have not found an out of the box Custom Shop Les Paul I could not use as is, in the most demanding situations. I have not found bad frets, improperly installed nuts or flawed instuments. They come with fully functional factory spec setups, meant to appeal to the general masses and play fine. The nature of this type instrument is to allow for the personal tweaks and fine tuned FINAL setups that any demanding player would make to have a personal high quality musical instrument.

I'm not saying the oddball defective guitar doesn't find it's way out of the factory, but truely defective examples as witnessed here are the exception, not the norm.