Schaller Nashville vs Gibson (ping) Nashville

stevehardy1 · Jul 14, 2009

Has anybody here directly compared the Schaller Nashville type bridge, to the stock Gibson Nashville bridge? I've read in a few different places that Gibson used to use Schaller made Nashville bridges, but then switched to the current Ping bridges made from zinc. I've also read that the Schallers are supposed to sound better, but never saw any direct A/B comparisons.

I've searched the web, trying to find out what the materials the Schaller is made from, but can't find any published specs. Does anybody know what metal the bridge and saddles are made with?

zombiwoof · Jul 14, 2009

I've never directly compared them, but some have reported that the Schaller (who invented the Nashville) sounds better than the Ping. The construction is different, for sure. I'm also pretty sure the Schaller is made of zinc, as are most bridges (ABR, etc.). There are folks now experimenting with different materials, like Pigtail (aluminum) and Callaham (steel), but zinc has always been used in the past. All I know is that I replaced the Ping Nashville on my SG Classic with an Allparts tunematic (that fits on the Nashville posts) and it sounds better and also allowed me to drop the previously high tailpiece down almost to the top, which was the major consideration for me. I don't like the Nashville bridge, and I replace it on any guitars I get.

Al

DANELECTRO · Jul 14, 2009

Does this look like a Schaller-made bridge as used by Gibson, or is it some other aftermarket Nashville-style bridge? It's marked "Made in Germany" on the underside.

stevehardy1 · Jul 14, 2009

DANELECTRO said:
Does this look like a Schaller-made bridge as used by Gibson, or is it some other aftermarket Nashville-style bridge? It's marked "Made in Germany" on the underside.

Cool & thanks for that photo! Anybody have a photo of the current Gibson Nashville? I'd love to see them side-by-side.

Steve Rowen · Jul 15, 2009

I made some aluminum Nashville style prototypes that I'm currently installing on a Shecter C1+ as a test Mule, and will be shipping off to Dave Burlick at Guitarist for a review. In my assesment, the Schaller probably sounds better than the Ping unit, because it's a better made product. This guitar, although being a mahogany guitar, chambered, with a maple cap, had no resonance what so ever. It comes with a Nashville style of Ping origin, and is string through the body like a Tele, which would make you think it could really have something going on, but it does nothing but go plink, plink, plink. There's really a problem with Nashville setups, I think mostly due to increased mass over an ABR, while having a more complex interface owning to the more complex thumbwheel bushing setup that incurs more mechanical losses. At least with a vintage ABR, you have posts directly in the body, and you've got yellow brass saddles that are harder than the zinc body sitting on top of the zinc bridge body, where as, the Nashvilles have zinc die-cast saddles sitting on a heavy zinc bridge body. I think improving the posts and bridge characteristics may well be a good improvement for guitars set up with Nashvilles, with a minimum of cost and effort. The upside to a Nashville, is better travel for intonation.
Steve
Pigtail Music

VintageWoodWorkshop · Jul 15, 2009

I have the Schaller Nashville on my 87' standard and I just ordered steel tailpiece studs and the tonepros avr-II. I'm planning on removing the Nashville bushings and doweling it like Danelectro did awhile back. I think this guitar sounds great right now with the Nashville with plenty of sustain and character...however, harmonics and bloom seem to be a little lacking even with the SLE-101's I recently installed. So I'm hoping that switching the bridge and tailpiece studs will reveal more of the guitar's natural wood resonance. I'll report back and let you guys know what differences I hear.

stevehardy1 · Jul 15, 2009

Steve Rowen said:
I made some aluminum Nashville style prototypes that I'm currently installing on a Shecter C1+ as a test Mule, and will be shipping off to Dave Burlick at Guitarist for a review. In my assesment, the Schaller probably sounds better than the Ping unit, because it's a better made product. This guitar, although being a mahogany guitar, chambered, with a maple cap, had no resonance what so ever. It comes with a Nashville style of Ping origin, and is string through the body like a Tele, which would make you think it could really have something going on, but it does nothing but go plink, plink, plink. There's really a problem with Nashville setups, I think mostly due to increased mass over an ABR, while having a more complex interface owning to the more complex thumbwheel bushing setup that incurs more mechanical losses. At least with a vintage ABR, you have posts directly in the body, and you've got yellow brass saddles that are harder than the zinc body sitting on top of the zinc bridge body, where as, the Nashvilles have zinc die-cast saddles sitting on a heavy zinc bridge body. I think improving the posts and bridge characteristics may well be a good improvement for guitars set up with Nashvilles, with a minimum of cost and effort. The upside to a Nashville, is better travel for intonation.
Steve
Pigtail Music

Thanks for the detailed report Steve...very informative! :3zone

Do you have any idea what the Schaller saddles are made of? Brass, perhaps, instead of the zinc type on the Ping?

stevehardy1 · Jul 15, 2009

Russian Bear said:
I have the Schaller Nashville on my 87' standard and I just ordered steel tailpiece studs and the tonepros avr-II. I'm planning on removing the Nashville bushings and doweling it like Danelectro did awhile back. I think this guitar sounds great right now with the Nashville with plenty of sustain and character...however, harmonics and bloom seem to be a little lacking even with the SLE-101's I recently installed. So I'm hoping that switching the bridge and tailpiece studs will reveal more of the guitar's natural wood resonance. I'll report back and let you guys know what differences I hear.

I have a new, Les Paul Traditional and it could use some more sustain and note bloom. Compared to my PRS CU22, through my Carol-Ann OD2-100, the Lester falls a bit short. Funny thing is that the PRS has a whammy bar. I always assumed that a bridge/tailpiece, solidly imbedded in the body, would out sustain any ax with a whammy bar.

VintageWoodWorkshop · Jul 15, 2009

i believe the Schaller are zinc....no sign of brass colored metal underneath when I shaped my saddles a few years ago....just dull gray.

Steve Rowen · Jul 15, 2009

The Schallers that I've worked with are zinc. Hardware makers like zinc specifically for the ease of manufacturing and cost. A zinc die-cast press will operate fully automatic, and so doesn't need the additional cost of an operater. Die-casting aluminum alloys requires an operater to laddle in each shot to the machine. The use of zinc is purely a matter of cost, with "the tone is livable" type consideration. Eventually the Human ear becomes imprinted with that tone, and if it is used in something we find tasteful, the ear accomodates it. Sometimes it's lack of harmonic complexity even allows it to tune out undesirable anomolies in an instrument.
Steve
Pigtail Music

waylay00 · Jul 15, 2009

What bridge was used on the 2002 Standards? PING or Schaller?

zombiwoof · Jul 16, 2009

If you look at the bottom of the bridge, Ping Works usually has their logo on there, I think it is PW inside a circle or something. And the Schaller seems to have "made in Germany" on it. There are also construction differences that I can't recall, I think the Schaller is more solid, the Ping more "open".

Al

stevehardy1 · Jul 16, 2009

Russian Bear said:
I have the Schaller Nashville on my 87' standard and I just ordered steel tailpiece studs and the tonepros avr-II. I'm planning on removing the Nashville bushings and doweling it like Danelectro did awhile back. I think this guitar sounds great right now with the Nashville with plenty of sustain and character...however, harmonics and bloom seem to be a little lacking even with the SLE-101's I recently installed. So I'm hoping that switching the bridge and tailpiece studs will reveal more of the guitar's natural wood resonance. I'll report back and let you guys know what differences I hear.

Please let us know how the avr-II & steel tailpiece studs work out and what changes occur after installation. I just ordered the Faber Tone Lock steel studs with spacers yesterday. I'll probably put an ABR-1 on the existing Nashvilel studs next, but I am only doing one upgrade at a time. That way, I'll truly know hat each upgrade does individually.

A. Warren · Jul 16, 2009

steve, you know with the thicker body youd think your LP would have even more advantage ove the CU22. odd. my custom 24 always had plenty of sustain, but the real GIRTH came back when i started playing my 75 LP again. maybe the brass saddles on the PRS with, i presume, a steel bridge "plate" on the prs makes the difference?

stevehardy1 · Jul 16, 2009

A. Warren said:
steve, you know with the thicker body youd think your LP would have even more advantage ove the CU22. odd. my custom 24 always had plenty of sustain, but the real GIRTH came back when i started playing my 75 LP again. maybe the brass saddles on the PRS with, i presume, a steel bridge "plate" on the prs makes the difference?

Maybe the brass saddles & steel bridge plate on the PRS is a big factor. I'm going to replace hardware piece by piece and hope to improve it. One thing on my Trad. is that it has a steeper neck angle than most of the more recent year Historics I've played. The result is a fairly high bridge & a pretty high tailpiece so the strings clear the back edge of the bridge.

Although the PRS sustains/blooms better, it is more focused & tight sounding, without the woody, open tone of the LP. If I could get the LP to sing like the PRS, I'd be very satsified with that guitar.

zombiwoof · Jul 16, 2009

stevehardy1 said:
Maybe the brass saddles & steel bridge plate on the PRS is a big factor. I'm going to replace hardware piece by piece and hope to improve it. One thing on my Trad. is that it has a steeper neck angle than most of the more recent year Historics I've played. The result is a fairly high bridge & a pretty high tailpiece so the strings clear the back edge of the bridge.

Although the PRS sustains/blooms better, it is more focused & tight sounding, without the woody, open tone of the LP. If I could get the LP to sing like the PRS, I'd be very satsified with that guitar.

Replacing the Nashville bridge with an ABR type will allow you to drop the tailpiece down, which it looks like you are already contemplating doing. I did this on my SG Classic with the Allparts ABR bridge (they used to call it the "old style tunematic", but they've changed the description). Works well with the Nashville posts, and is reasonably priced ($30 or less, depending on where you buy it). The results were so good that I have decided to do no more mods, the sound was improved and I can now drop the tail almost all of the way down. When Gibson started using the Nashville instead of the ABR on all of their production guitars, the "high tailpiece" began to be a problem. Due to the wider Nashville, it has to be higher to enable the strings to clear the bridge. This to me was a stupid cost-cutting change on Gibson's part, the ABR was a great bridge, there was no other reason to put the Nashville on except to maximize Gibson's profits, even though they raise the prices horribly every year. If the guitar was designed around the Nashville (different neck angle, etc.) that would be another thing, but they just decided to slap that thing on there.

Al

stevehardy1 · Jul 22, 2009

Just installed the Faber Tone-Lock studs on my LP. A brief review of my findings. http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160037

benlf · May 1, 2017

stevehardy1 said:
Just installed the Faber Tone-Lock studs on my LP. A brief review of my findings. http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160037

My Gibson guitar has Ping tuners (which suck) and a Ping Nashville bridge and tailpiece (all zinc, including the saddles and tailpiece studs). I like the Nashville bridge, primarily because it doesn't rattle. But I read Ping Wells is a Taiwanese company with factories in China, and that made me want to upgrade the tuners and the rest of the hardware as well. For tuners, the only us made tuners I know of are Sperzel, and I'd have to drill into the neck to mount them. A lot of companies make Kluson copy tuners, including Kluson (Korean), Gotoh (Japanese), Grover (Taiwan) and Schaller (Germany). So far I'm impressed with the new Kluson Revolution tuners, so I'm going to give them a try. If they don't work out, I'll go with Schaller.

Kluson also sells American made tune o matic bridges ant tailpieces. I'm going to try those too. They have an aluminum tailpiece with steel posts, which are the materials Gibson apparently used back in the day. They have steel bridges, which I think are cool. But I don't think Gibson ever used steel, so I got a zinc Nashville bridge with brass saddles (I understand the ABR 1 bridges had brass saddles).

I think the hardware on Gibson guitars is a real weak point. There are much better American made products out there for reasonable prices (and they are more historically accurate). Philadelphia Luthiers and Callaham also sell high quality American hardware. I bought a Korean Peerless hollow body recently and was embarrassed to find the hardware was better than my American Gibson.

I say get that Ping stuff out of there!

StudioFan · May 3, 2017

I just replaced 2 old Schaller bridges that collapsed in the middle.
That happens with a low tailpiece .

I replaced them with one older Schaller and a brand new bridge off of a GLP Custom from 2016...

The Schaller just seems to be made better and is a bit heavier .

Schaller Nashville vs Gibson (ping) Nashville

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