calling all Ace Frehley Custom Shop Les Paul Owners (of the 300 limited)

jimmyace2006 · Nov 22, 2008

skhan007 said:
I have seen deluxe's with bound headstocks before. I'm no statistician with the info on how many were made, though. Here's a pic of Ace playing the old tobacco with a deluxe truss cover and bound headstock. I have more pics of this guitar too..but this is just one...circa 1974 (first album).

Yes, but my guess is that Ace had the binding added. It has full sized humbuckers too. Those were probably not original either since the Deluxes came with mini humbuckers. Only a few came full with sized HB's. And since Ace has a history of changing his guitars & routing them & smoking them, etc., I don't think you can draw any conclusions from looking at any of the guitars he played. I have been doing this for years & never saw a Deluxe with a bound head stock from the 70s. Not to say it isn't possible; but highly unlikely.

Allen Collins · Nov 27, 2008

John Tate said:
It's very interesting ... all the discussion about that Black DoubleCut. It's been going around for years. Litterally since I beagn my site. I wish I had an answer for all the questions I get about it ... "Is this it" ... "Could this be Ace's original Tobacco-burst" ... the list goes on. I don't know the answer. Ace has claimed that it was stolen (see his remarks in Chip Rock Dayton's book) ... based on my research, that was somewhere around the time Kiss was recording the Rock 'N' Roll Over album. Why would Ace claim it was stolen, but then Nik Chatel stated that Ace gave it to him to convert into the DC. Admittedly, there are more people who believe the Black DC is Ace's original guitar, than those who don't. I'm one of the sceptical ones. It's a very cool little Mystery ... or should we call it a Kiss-tery ?!?!? Sorry ... that was a bad one. LOL !!!!

Hi John.
I cannot understand how the story of this guitar has been going around for so long yet I bought it around two years ago from a gentleman in Germany on ebay against virtually no competition from other bidders and for what I thought was a bargain price even without suspecting it could be the "missing" guitar.
At that time, I did not know anything about Ace Frehley other than he was the guitarist with KISS. If it was suspected to be Aces original guitar before I bought it then who did suspect it and when? Was the guitar well known before I bought it?
I really believed that I was the first person to actually see that this guitar was pictured behind Aces legs in the basement shot?

Who previous to me decided that the guitar was so similar with the fret wear that it could be Aces original Tobacco burst?
I was the first to take out the pickups I am sure, which revealed the burn damage inside.
I cannot believe that an Ace Frehley fan did not snap up this guitar if it was brought to peoples attention that it may be Aces "missing" or "stolen" guitar before I bought it.
I appreciate that some people may choose to believe this is not Aces original Tobacco burst but I for one am convinced it is.
No-one faked the paper Nik Chatal stickers or burned the Strings & Things guitar then refinished it.

All the damage for sure occured before Strings & Things made this guitar into a double cutaway.
How is it that the burn damage in the control cavity shot is only where the Gibson routing was and not where Strings & Things routed it for the repositioned toggle switch?
Even Aces agent asked me the one liner "what are you asking for it?". (I think I asked far too much!!)
I really cannot understand why anyone would doubt this IS the original Tobacco burst.
Here are a few more pictures. The fret wear says it all.

Please, lets have a show of hands as to who believes it isn,t and who believes it is the original Tobacco burst.
Its time Ace came clean here and told the truth!!!
Thanks.
Allen.

zosolp · Nov 27, 2008

it sounds pretty convincing that it is the missing one

skhan007 · Nov 28, 2008

Allen- I've always thought you had the real thing. I'm convinced. Makes perfect sense given all we know.

Marshall Man · Nov 28, 2008

Seems like it probably is his guitar, but I don't get the "fret wear."

jimmyace2006 · Nov 28, 2008

I think it is probably his guitar that was behind his legs in the pic; most likely it is also the t-burst Deluxe - you can see where the pickup routings were enlaged for full sized humbuckers. Obviously the binding on the head was added when they changed it to a DC. That is too bad. I think it would be worth a huge amount of money if it was still the t-burst guitar pictured above. I have no idea what it is worth in its current condition. Clearly, it was not too important to him anymore if he let it get away. I think he still has his 73 c-burst with 3 pups.

Allen Collins · Nov 28, 2008

Marshall Man said:
Seems like it probably is his guitar, but I don't get the "fret wear."

Hi Marshall Man.
Its the wear to the inlays on the neck that gives it away. In particular if you look at the 15th fret inlay.
Cheers.
Allen.

Thanks to all the members who have expressed an opinion on the ACEs origin.
:salude :salude :salude

Allen Collins · Nov 28, 2008

jimmyace2006 said:
I think it is probably his guitar that was behind his legs in the pic; most likely it is also the t-burst Deluxe - you can see where the pickup routings were enlaged for full sized humbuckers. Obviously the binding on the head was added when they changed it to a DC. That is too bad. I think it would be worth a huge amount of money if it was still the t-burst guitar pictured above. I have no idea what it is worth in its current condition. Clearly, it was not too important to him anymore if he let it get away. I think he still has his 73 c-burst with 3 pups.

Hi jimmyace2006.
The headstock binding is shown in your previous post showing the T burst from 74. Strings & Things most likely did not add this binding?
Is it possible that Ace could have blacked it out or do we think that the headstock binding was done just before he handed the guitar to Strings & Things?
Allen.:hmm :hmm :hmm

ps.
What is a huge amount of money these days???

Marshall Man · Nov 29, 2008

Allen, I see what you are saying on the 7th/15th frets. To bad the guitar was redone, a lot of killer classic songs were played on that guitar. Ace used that guitar as his main one for years, I guess after the conversion it didn't mean much to him anymore!

reswot · Nov 29, 2008

From the inlays, it does appear that it could be the same guitar, and the story about the smoke guitar at S&T does lend some credence.

However, I also agree with those who really don't think the guitar has great value today, since it is the pre-modification history of the guitar that is interesting to most.

In many ways, it's very similar to the Duane Allman goldtop that was discussed a couple of months back -- except that this one isn't a 50's LP and doesn't have quite the same historical pedigree (i.e., Allman Brothers/Derek & the Dominoes v. KISS).

It's still a cool find, though!

jimmyace2006 · Nov 29, 2008

Allen Collins said:
Hi jimmyace2006.
The headstock binding is shown in your previous post showing the T burst from 74. Strings & Things most likely did not add this binding?
Is it possible that Ace could have blacked it out or do we think that the headstock binding was done just before he handed the guitar to Strings & Things?
Allen.:hmm :hmm :hmm

ps.
What is a huge amount of money these days???

I don't think the head stock binding is original, especially since we have earlier pictures of that guitar without any binding. Clearly, it is a mod that Ace had done to the guitar. No way was it blacked out; you can tell in the pics without the head stock binding that the head is identical to any other Deluxe. He had it routed for full sized humbuckers; he had the binding added too. I challenge anyone to show me an original early 70s LP Deluxe with original head stock binding. I ma not saying it it impossible, but I have never seen one.

skhan007 · Nov 29, 2008

jimmyace2006 said:
I don't think the head stock binding is original, especially since we have earlier pictures of that guitar without any binding. Clearly, it is a mod that Ace had done to the guitar. No way was it blacked out; you can tell in the pics without the head stock binding that the head is identical to any other Deluxe. He had it routed for full sized humbuckers; he had the binding added too. I challenge anyone to show me an original early 70s LP Deluxe with original head stock binding. I ma not saying it it impossible, but I have never seen one.

How do we know which one of Ace's tobacco bursts ended up being Allen's double cut? I posted a pic of one with binding on the headstock (top of this page) and there's the other shots of the one with the star decal. Could've been either one since he played two tobacco bursts prior to Dressed To Kill. I totally believe Allen has one of them, but not sure which of the two. Allen suggests that the inlays indicate it's the smoker that had the star decal. I would tend to agree given the 15th and 7th fret inlays.

Allen Collins · Nov 29, 2008

skhan007
Would you mind contacting me privately? I would very much appreciate your input.
Cheers.
Allen.

jimmyace2006 · Nov 29, 2008

Yes, and I love it when I start a thread for one purpose (in this case, to have all the owners of the 300 Custom Shop Ace guitars post pics of their guitars), and someone else gets on here & hijacks the whole thing for a totally different purpose. Seems like a different thread could have been started instead of ruining this one.

Allen Collins · Nov 29, 2008

jimmyace2006 said:
Yes, and I love it when I start a thread for one purpose (in this case, to have all the owners of the 300 Custom Shop Ace guitars post pics of their guitars), and someone else gets on here & hijacks the whole thing for a totally different purpose. Seems like a different thread could have been started instead of ruining this one.

Sorry.

Jover · Nov 29, 2008

jimmyace2006 said:
Yes, and I love it when I start a thread for one purpose (in this case, to have all the owners of the 300 Custom Shop Ace guitars post pics of their guitars), and someone else gets on here & hijacks the whole thing for a totally different purpose. Seems like a different thread could have been started instead of ruining this one.

Point made, but in reading this thread, you responded to the "other" discussion quite a bit, too.

jeffabc1 · Nov 25, 2016

Hi everyone. I have ACE 157. Just bought it couple months ago and now proudly displayed in my living room.

Big Al · Nov 26, 2016

:##:##

Big Al · Nov 26, 2016

I've seen quite a few Standards from the early 70's before the official relaunch of 75. Shipping totals are not always reliable. The Kalamazoo small script Standards are much sought after. A few are owned by forum bros.

I have no idea about the butchered Standard. But I know S&T did bind headstocks, most famously Jeff Becks Yardbird Bust. From the photo's it impossible to declare a match. I don't see one with careful scrutiny.

Ace243 · May 1, 2017

jimmyace2006 said:
Please post pics of your Ace Frehley Custom Shop limited guitars! Please, no production models; only post if it is one of the 300. Thanks!

Hi Jimmy! I have ACE 243 in Newcastle Australia. About to get signed personally by ACE in OCT17 when he tours with ALICE COOPER.

calling all Ace Frehley Custom Shop Les Paul Owners (of the 300 limited)

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