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NGD - Les Paul Traditional Pro II - WTF?!

PHILBERT

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Nov 25, 2006
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1,659
I don't know if this is the case for your guitar but a buddy of mine was doing warranty work on a Traditional and after a number of calls to Gibson about the split coil not working he found out that they don't split at all. Their so called "split coil" is actually a capacitor that just changes the sound. Too funny.

Hi, Pat. These actually do split. My screwdriver tap test on the pole pieces confirmed which coils were active. The green and white leads, which connect to the bridge between the inner and outer coils, ground out at the switch when it is in the up position. My problem was with what coils remained active...the inner. Not the best tone in those positions, so I flipped the red and black. Much better, especially on the neck pickup. I am going to put another push/push pot in and do a phase rversal option on the bridge pickup. Why not?

The big question is if I want to try my ThroBak's in this guitar. I like the tone now, although the neck pup is not as clear as what a ThroBak could do (I think). At some point I will give this a try, but I want to really know these 57/super 57 pups before I make the switch. I still am really digging this Les Paul. Tone and play are a dream come true.
 

PHILBERT

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Nov 25, 2006
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1,659
UPDATE:

I have completed the Phase Reversal (bridge pickup) push/push switch pot upgrade mod on the bridge tone (4th) knob. It is now a Les Paul Trad Pro III (joke, but might be so in the future). This produced some interesting results, and some tone changes that I didn't expect. Please note I reversed the red and black leads on the pickup connections a while ago, and this really improved the guitar in a big way. If you have one, you may want to do this so the outer coils are active in SC mode and not the inner coils. This made single coil tones MUCH more useful, but it did more.

First, the out-of-phase combo tones are less dramatic than expected, but you can find that gutted mid tone sound that is used on some songs as an intro before the big hammer smashes you over the head. It works! Mixed humbucking and single coil can be interesting, but you really have to play with the balance to get it to work. Not too much happening with this otherwise.

Second, and most surprising, is the difference in coil sound on the Super '57. These two coils are different animals to the point that reversed (as it came from the factory...black grounded and red hot) the humbucker tone changed, and was not nearly as defined as when the outer (closer to the bridge) coil was on the hot side (black). This could be because of pickup height tuning, as I really nailed the sweet spot on this pup, or maybe it is just better this way. This is a big difference, and the sound is much better now that I reversed the factory wiring, but I didn't expect there to be a difference. :hmm

Third, the inner bridge single coil sound is not near as good as the outer. It is a little quacky, and can do a "Sweet Home" tone in a pinch (that's good), but lacks definition...unlike the outer coil. The outer coil has fantastic splash and (someday) will bloom when the magnets age. The trick is to roll back the volume to 6 or 7, and tone back to 7.5. :wow This gets close to a cross of a Tele and P90 sound in splash and chime. Very useful! (It should have come from the factory that way.) It makes this guitar a different model. How cool you can switch back to LP tone for solo work, and then back to chime for rhythm.

I have been full circle on the Super '57 pickup adjustments. I kept tweaking the bridge pup until at some point I went too high and it got a little hyper. (No, this is not a "meth" story! :wah ) Anyway, I lowered it again and started over. THIS was educational. The sweet spot is where woody air (cool vintage vibe) meets strong crunch, and any higher loses the vintage vibe and goes into metal land. With the right balance you get vintage rolled back a little, and hard crunch wide open, plus the tone is nice and full...unlike when there is too much air. String definition is great in this sweet spot, but hitting the spot is a matter of very small fractions of a turn. Finding it on this pickup is a bit harder than standard 57's, but well worth it.

To sum it up, I can't stop playing this guitar. It can do so much. I played it all weeked with great joy (didn't want to put it down). It does 10 distinct tones real well. The two outer single coil combo is real nice when the bridge is around 7 and the neck around 2. My only wish for the neck pickup would be less bass, and that is why I keep it on single coil mode most of the time. There is nothing bad about the range of tone this guitar has (no tone holes). That may be luck, but this guitar is a keeper...and my #1 for all things that don't require a whammy bar. :rofl
 

PHILBERT

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Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
1,659
I ordered (and paid for) the Tronical Tune Min-Etune direct from Germany on 3/21/2013 and it just arrived yesterday 5/4/2013. I wasted no time installing it on this guitar. After a full charge to the battery, I gave it a try. NICE! :peace2

I followed the calibration instructions, and set accuracy to MAX. It is pretty fast, but even faster in single string mode, so I use that most of the time. I set up my custom tuning bank with the same stored tunings I have on my V. This neck handles the 'way out there' tunings pretty well. If I go from standard to something far from that, it may take two or three tuning cycles to get it perfect, but that is to be expected with any piece of wood. So I am as happy as a pig in shit with this thing. The accuracy is better than the first generation Tronical, and the speed is way better.

Pictures to follow...stay tuned! :bike

lptradproiitronicaltune.jpg
 
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PHILBERT

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Nov 25, 2006
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1,659
I know I'm most likely talking to myself here, but just in case anyone is interested in these really versatile guitars, here are some new details:

The range of tones this thing gets was already pretty good, and flipping the red/black wires really improved the single coil tone, but yesterday I did something that really helped the bridge single coil tone become VERY usable...like a close Tele bridge tone. I thought my 4th string was being overpowered in humbucker mode, so I did some pole piece adjustments (raised) on 4, 3 (a little), 5 and 1 until I heard the right balance. Holy cow! Perfect LP tone, but what about the single coil tone now? YES! There it is...that Tele tone. If the guitar were made of swamp ash, it would be very authentic. So when I look at how many really good pickup tones I can get without even needing to chang my favorite volume and tone setting, I get these:

Killer LP Humbucker Bridge Tone
Slammin Hard Rock Humbucker Bridge with Preamp On (hard drive with less cream and more crunch and clarity)
Great Tele-like Single Coil Bridge
Strat Quack Single Coil Bridge on Phase Reverse (sort of "Sweet Home" like)
Convincing Strat-like Single Coil Neck (I love this Strat neck tone!)
Jazzy Humbucker Neck
Chirpy Combo (SC neck and HB bridge...fantastic!)
Perky Combo (SC neck and SC bridge...Tele-like combo)

That is all just with the same vol/tone settings, but if you dime out the bridge controls you get:

Metal Bridge Humbucker Tone (you might not know this was a Les Paul)
Yeah...Preamp On Bridge Humbucker Stat Bridge Tone (strange, but very Blackmore-like tone!)

Then you can get lost in the endless Phase reversal combo selections by playing with splits and balance. The thing about this guitar is it may be the only guitar I need on a gig...as long as I don't need a whammy bar. :laugh2: It really does it all, and does it well. With the added MinE-Tune, there is nothing tuning-wise it can't do. And here is the point...you get all this for much less than a Custom Shop Les Paul. Not that a Historic is bad, but this USA guitar is that good and much more versatile.

Control cavity shot with 4 push/push switches and neck treble bleed circuit. (lower right is the bridge added pickup phase switch)
8j9j.jpg


I can't say enough good about the stock 57/Super 57 4-wire pickups, but these little guys are just perfect for tone controls. The rolloff is just right for LP tone and "Woman Tone" in the neck. There are many sweet spots that just ring right for LP tone...depending on how much top-end you want. Wide open is going a bit beyond LP into good general hard rock tone, but it should be noted that dialing back on the volume also adds some LP-like tone. All in all, these stock hardware parts all work very well together. I doubt you could improve anything with Luxe caps or "Superpots". It is as good as good can be. I wouldn't even think of putting ThroBaks in, or changing the tailpiece or studs. I would be afraid of spoiling what I already have!

Stock caps that have a great rolloff with very LP-like tone. (who makes these? TDK???)
xib1.jpg


The Nashville bridge was removed, Nashville (brass) posts were filed and new (old style) wire ABR1 fitted. It was easy to do and this gave the guitar more punch and a nice low mid and bass increase. Not too much, but an improvement. If only I could have a piezo pickup in the bridge, THAT would make this the absolute ultimate guitar!

Nashville bridge to ABR-1 conversion for bigger tone. (Nashville posts filed)
qkfk.jpg


Gibson's info on the neck tenon for the Trad Pro. (different from previous short "rocker tenons"...tighter fit...more contact area)
7bwg.jpg


No Trad Pro II web page, but last year's Trad Pro I web page:
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Traditional-Pro.aspx

I have a nice collection of discrete guitars, and they all are optimized for the best tone I can get from them, but I love all the tones I get from this one Les Paul. I NEVER get tired of the sound of this guitar. If I want a quick tone or dynamic change, it is all there and easy to switch in. Gibson really did right here, and with some minor mods you can have it all in one guitar. I wouldn't be talking it up so much if I didn't feel this was the "deal of the century" guitar. It really is that good. :bike

OK...now that I put everyone to sleep... :yawn ...carry on! :peace2
 
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Minibucker

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Jan 12, 2003
Messages
6,372
I've always loved the regular USA 50's neck profile. Probably my favorite one, actually. I wish they'd put it on an ES-335.

That 'satin' finish that comes on the Trad Pro's back/neck is also great. Looks almost gloss as it is a smooth and polished satin, not that 'spattered' faded that they had on some models. Perfect, really, and would love it on any neck.
 

PHILBERT

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
1,659
I've always loved the regular USA 50's neck profile. Probably my favorite one, actually. I wish they'd put it on an ES-335.

That 'satin' finish that comes on the Trad Pro's back/neck is also great. Looks almost gloss as it is a smooth and polished satin, not that 'spattered' faded that they had on some models. Perfect, really, and would love it on any neck.

I had to take a break...total tonal Havona...mind overload!:biggrin:

Agree on all points. Especially the 50's profile. Perfect! The back of my neck has become full gloss. And the top was already full gloss...and easy wipe clean with no dull oil deposits from hands or arm rest. Why is that? I almost thought it was poly, but Gibson says Nitro. :hmm

The rest is satin, but like you say, not that splattered rub-off crap from early 2K's. Very durable. I bet it will also buff to gloss. I just enjoy it as is. The color on the back/sides/neck is also rich dark cherry. Love it! :spabout

Sorry, I can't stop gushing over this. If my primary computer was still working (BSoD), I would make and edit a video demoing all these great tones. If I can script a list of quick changes, I might do it on a single take. That is going to be work. I am not as polished as good ol' Greg Koch. :biggrin:
 

PHILBERT

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Nov 25, 2006
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Is it as light as the regular Trad Pro?

Uh Oh! :wah

Don't let BigAl hear that! :laugh2:

I believe the only difference between a Trad Pro and a Trad Pro II is the push/push controls, boost circuit, and new Super 57 for the bridge pickup on the Pro II. Did you mean regular (non-GC exclusive) Traditional?

Well I thought mine was 9.5 pounds. For some reason I was weighing myself and then holding the guitar to calculate the difference. Why not just put the guitar on the scale? (Duh!) So it reads 9.0 pounds on the money. I can live with that. :bike
 

Les'isMorePaul

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Jan 17, 2002
Messages
162
Uh Oh! :wah

Don't let BigAl hear that! :laugh2:

I believe the only difference between a Trad Pro and a Trad Pro II is the push/push controls, boost circuit, and new Super 57 for the bridge pickup on the Pro II. Did you mean regular (non-GC exclusive) Traditional?

Well I thought mine was 9.5 pounds. For some reason I was weighing myself and then holding the guitar to calculate the difference. Why not just put the guitar on the scale? (Duh!) So it reads 9.0 pounds on the money. I can live with that. :bike

I was going by the link you sent.

"The average weight of a Les Paul Traditional Pro body is 5.88 lbs."

Just would seem incredibly light for an LP.
Maybe too light if I was prepping to pull it off a stand and expected something more "substantial?"
 

PHILBERT

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Nov 25, 2006
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I was going by the link you sent.

"The average weight of a Les Paul Traditional Pro body is 5.88 lbs."

Just would seem incredibly light for an LP.
Maybe too light if I was prepping to pull it off a stand and expected something more "substantial?"

I think they were refering to the body alone. Add the neck and hardware and you are up to 9 lbs.
 

NiteGoat

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Joined
Jan 30, 2014
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My 2014 Traditional Pro II in Heritage Cherry Burst w/ a 50's neck. I got her about 3 months ago. I can't say enough good things about this guitar. There isn't one thing that I dislike. The way I describe it to people is, My 2009 Trad+ sounds like Jimmy Page and my 2014 Trad Pro II sounds like Slash.

pknK20G.jpg


6RSJOEc.jpg
 

lindseyp

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Feb 14, 2015
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My 2014 LPTP2, gold top. My third try, this one works perfectly and sounds great.
 

BubbaBurst

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Feb 17, 2015
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Gibson must have taken note here and started doing it right. Maybe they used hot hide glue or a non-condom truss rod…or something. Whatever happened here, it works!

There's a lot of unpredictable mystery mojo voodoo when it comes to great guitars. All Les Pauls have a certain identifiable sound, but some of them verge on magical. Congrats on finding a good one!
 

TulsaMike

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Feb 25, 2015
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Philbert,
Thanks for the great review! Tons of very useful information here. I just bought a used 2013 TPII today, so I'm still learning about it. I'm going to try your mods, and I'm really interested in doing the phase reversal mod.

Where did you get the push-push pot for this? Also, do you have some information on how you wired it?

Thanks again!

- Mike
 

jihnnyfyg

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May 10, 2015
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I got a 2014 Les Paul Standard Traditional PRO II in "Merlot". I've been playing Les Pauls for over 30 years now and never owned one newer than an '82, but when I touched this LP, Dang! It has that "old school" feel and tone to it (and then some). I never would have thought it possible any more, maybe it's a "fluke" but yup! I have one and she's here to stay!!!
 

Gary J

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Sep 20, 2015
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I just bought the 2015 LP Trad Pro III yesterday! Great guitar with none of weird 2015 specs from that model year. Got it brand new for 1575 with a case. It was actually marked 1999 in the store, but advertised for 1599 in GC's website. My first "real" LP! It's got split coils, a coil selector, and a 10db adjustable boost. Don't really care much about bells and whistles, but some of the split coil/coil selector settings actually sound quite good. It's not weight relieved, so it's on the hefty side, but not a boat anchor by any means. It feels like it's under 10lbs. Action, relief, set up and intonation were all spot on, so all I did was put on some fresh strings, which is a joy with the Grover locking tuners (my first locking tuners). SO easy and no string cutting. I think I got a damn good guitar for the price.
 
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