• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

POTS ???? AUDIO or LINEAR TAPER ??

bluesjuke

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
7,007
I think it's the single most important mod you can do on your guitar.
After all it makes a huge improvement on it's own & will also enhance all the others getting the most out of them.
 

Stringrazor

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
112
Thanks for the pointers. Being new to LP ownership, I have lots to learn about LP tones. Right now tho', I like what I hear from my R8 w/o mods.
 
Last edited:

Sparta

New member
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
693
Honestly, I cannot tell if he is saying they are better for our applicaion or worse, or not commenting.
 

hanknc

Active member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
1,119
Sparta, I posted that in the wrong thread. Sorry 'bout that!
 

Sparta

New member
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
693
Hi-

Well, it still kind of applies as it is control cavity stuff. Either way, I just don't get his point.

Thanks.
 

omboy

New member
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
145
i dislike audio taper for volume pots. . . that huge jump between 10 and 7 is annoying to me when i roll back the volume to clean things up, and it makes it hard to get some middle position combinations. but then, i like 300k volume pots for bridge pickups, too *most of the time*

it all depends on the individual guitar/pickup combo and personal preference.

go forth and experiment! pots are cheap.
 

bluesjuke

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
7,007
Stringrazor said:
Thanks for the pointers. Being new to LP ownership, I have lots to learn about LP tones. Right now tho', I like what I hear from my R8 w/o mods.


I liked the tone of my R8 so much I was afraid I would lose what it had, at least it's particular 'voice'.
The only thing I didn't like was the limitations of it's controls.
Once I went ahead & put the RS Kit (True Tone) in I found that it had everything that it already had plus more.
I am so glad that I did the mod.
 

bluesjuke

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
7,007
omboy said:
i dislike audio taper for volume pots. . . that huge jump between 10 and 7 is annoying to me when i roll back the volume to clean things up, and it makes it hard to get some middle position combinations. but then, i like 300k volume pots for bridge pickups, too *most of the time*

it all depends on the individual guitar/pickup combo and personal preference.

go forth and experiment! pots are cheap.

I don't get this. I have seen this posted before.
I had the"huge jump" that you mention when I had linears in my guitar. It was gone when I installed the audio pots.
 

papersoul

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
3,066
Hate to bring up this OLD thread but I am going through this now. Can you do classic Alex Lifeson volume swells with the Gibson linear pots? How about the stock tone pots....are they audio taper?????
 

DMB70

New member
Joined
May 25, 2002
Messages
524
Where do the Dr Vintage pots figure into theses choices?
 

papersoul

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
3,066
I decided rather than buy more pots I am going to use what I have! I replaced all the pots in my 04 LP Standard with CTS audio. The neck volume has a 500K audio taper but I rarely touch the neck volume. I might just replace the bridge volume with the original stock linear taper 300K Gibson pot. I doubt I would notice a big difference if I ordered a CTS linear pot vs my Gibson. I also doubt puting all the stock tone pots back in would notce any difference from my CTS audio tapers. I say that because I believe Gibson uses 500K audio tapers for the tone anyway.

Hopefully having a neck audio taper and bridge volume linear taper won't be weird, but like I said.....I only use the neck volume if I am setting the volume for a particular song. I only roll around the bridge volume within songs.
 

zombiwoof

Active member
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,565
Hate to bring up this OLD thread but I am going through this now. Can you do classic Alex Lifeson volume swells with the Gibson linear pots? How about the stock tone pots....are they audio taper?????

I doubt you will be able to do smooth volume swells with a linear volume pot. There is very little change in volume from 10 down to 1 or 2 on the knob then an abrupt cutoff of volume. Audio or one of the custom tapers would be better for that.

And current Gibson production guitars use 300k linear volumes and 500k audio tones. Most players that use distortion don't like the linear volumes, and the 300k value tends to make the pickups sound darker.

Al
 

papersoul

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
3,066
I doubt you will be able to do smooth volume swells with a linear volume pot. There is very little change in volume from 10 down to 1 or 2 on the knob then an abrupt cutoff of volume. Audio or one of the custom tapers would be better for that.

And current Gibson production guitars use 300k linear volumes and 500k audio tones. Most players that use distortion don't like the linear volumes, and the 300k value tends to make the pickups sound darker.

Al


Sounding darker is good! Most amps and speakers are too bright anyway!

I always thought linear pots rolled evenly from 10 to 0.....much more than audio taper. This is what I have always read, inlcuding the graphs people have displayed. I know that it seems many prefer the linear for this reason .Using an audio taper live becomes tough because you have to be very, very accurate witht he volume knob or you could accidentally turn it off! LOL.

I guess this is where the special taper pots come into play like the WCR taper pots or Hamer. I don't believe Hamer makes long shaft models though. Maybe Dimarzio.
 

zombiwoof

Active member
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,565
Sounding darker is good! Most amps and speakers are too bright anyway!

I always thought linear pots rolled evenly from 10 to 0.....much more than audio taper. This is what I have always read, inlcuding the graphs people have displayed. I know that it seems many prefer the linear for this reason .Using an audio taper live becomes tough because you have to be very, very accurate witht he volume knob or you could accidentally turn it off! LOL.

I guess this is where the special taper pots come into play like the WCR taper pots or Hamer. I don't believe Hamer makes long shaft models though. Maybe Dimarzio.

Most of the things you are saying about linear pots are my actual experience with audio pots, and vice versa. I guess you'll find out if you have ordered linear for volumes. Gibson puts linear volume pots in their production guitars and most people complain about them doing nothing down to 1 or 2 on the knob and then cutting off abruptly. Contrary to what you are saying, most guys on these boards seem to prefer audio pots for volume and tone. But, whatever you want, it seems like you are answering your own questions here. I was just trying to help.
 

Sixstring7

New member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
19
Most of the things you are saying about linear pots are my actual experience with audio pots, and vice versa. I guess you'll find out if you have ordered linear for volumes. Gibson puts linear volume pots in their production guitars and most people complain about them doing nothing down to 1 or 2 on the knob and then cutting off abruptly. Contrary to what you are saying, most guys on these boards seem to prefer audio pots for volume and tone. But, whatever you want, it seems like you are answering your own questions here. I was just trying to help.

+1

My new R0 has the CTS audio taper pots and the roll-off is very smooth no abruptness at all.
 

papersoul

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
3,066
Most of the things you are saying about linear pots are my actual experience with audio pots, and vice versa. I guess you'll find out if you have ordered linear for volumes. Gibson puts linear volume pots in their production guitars and most people complain about them doing nothing down to 1 or 2 on the knob and then cutting off abruptly. Contrary to what you are saying, most guys on these boards seem to prefer audio pots for volume and tone. But, whatever you want, it seems like you are answering your own questions here. I was just trying to help.

Quite a few guys on this forum and others have said they prefer linear for volume because audio is too abrupt. I know I mentioned volume swells but there are only a few times I would ever do that.....and that is ony if we covered those songs. For just cleaning up the tone...linear seems to do better....it is a more gradual change so you don't have to nail it on stage and accidentally turn off your guitar! LOL. Below 5-6 on my CTS Audio taper pots...it is so quiet you can hardly hear the guitar. The biggest change happens from 6-10...not much below that. With linear, and if you look at a graph comparing linear to audio, you will see the drop in volume is much more gradual with linear hence you have the ability to clean up the tone from 10 down to about 2-3 and then volume drops off. That is perfect if you use the volume knob to clean up the signal....sort of as a gain knob.
 

GeeZero

New member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
44
FWIW, the theory behind audio taper (for volume) is that our ears are more sensitive to volume increases at low volumes than high volumes.

For instance, the AUDIO taper RS in the chart above increases about the same volume at each setting (as far as our ears hear it). So it SOUNDS linear. In particular, from 1 to 7, each setting should be distinguisably louder from quiet to moderately loud at 150K. From 7 to 9 would sound like the same increases in volume at each setting. These are also called logarithmic because of that sag in the chart.

The Gibson LINEAR taper LOOKS more linear, but doesn't sound that way. For instance, it jumps from quiet to moderately loud 150K between 2 and 3 (as far as our ears hear it). From 3 to 10, each setting increases very little compared to that jump.

I think this fits with everyone's observations. Linear decreases very gradually from 10 to 3 and jumps from 3 to 2. Audio decreases more drastically than linear from 10 to 7, but continues its same relative differences on down to 0.

I think Gibson switched to audio taper on Historics in 2009.

I have no idea how these affect tone pots, tho.
 

papersoul

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
3,066
FWIW, the theory behind audio taper (for volume) is that our ears are more sensitive to volume increases at low volumes than high volumes.

By this are you saying we are going to hear the difference in volume more at low volumes playing at home compared to playing with a band at high volume?

Makes total sense. I have not tested these pots in my LP with the band. I just joined a new band so I am going off my home experience at low volumes.
I turned up much louder tonight and the response was better...not as drastic and I could still clean up the gain without making it too quiet. That is why some guys say they like linear.....they can more control gain than volume.

Either way I thikn I am pretty happy for now and will stick with it till I find a real problem while playing with the band.

So, essentially I replaced the neck volume in my SG with a 500K audio, in my 2004 LP I replaced the neck vol also with a 500K audio and the bridge vol with a 300K audio. I am going to stop worrying and just play. LOL!:bike
 
Top