• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Another Peter Green Faded from CV Guitars

zosolp

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
1,488
if you just took the pickup out and switched it aroud would it be back normal and what does fliping it do
 

mikev

New member
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
1,124
if you just took the pickup out and switched it aroud would it be back normal and what does fliping it do

The magnet is flipped inside.
That's what makes the tone change.
The rotation of the pickup is only because that's how Peter Green had his.
When you play in the middle position with both volumes at 10, it plays out of phase.
Otherwise, everything else is normal.
 

Jurius

Active member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,399
The magnet is flipped inside.
That's what makes the tone change.
The rotation of the pickup is only because that's how Peter Green had his.
When you play in the middle position with both volumes at 10, it plays out of phase.
Otherwise, everything else is normal.

I'm not sure this is correct. Mine sounds out of phase at any volume in the middle position. Perhaps what you're saying is that the treble and neck positions are normal, and the middle position is always out of phase.

Sweet looking guitar Mike V. It looks a lot like mine. I wish I had been able to afford a Les Paul when I had been playing for a year. Those were the Silvertone days!
 

dock44

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
85
Larry told me that if both volume knobs are the same it will sound out of phase. I took this to mean that they can both be at 10 or both be at 5 etc., and it will sound out of phase. As soon as the volume knobs are at different settings, you will have an in phase sound, though it might not sound just like stock(which is a good thing). The neck position alone will mostly sound stock, but not quite(again a good thing)
 

Jurius

Active member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,399
I need better clarification.

Suppose there is a 10% tolerance in the volume pots. The numbers on the knobs are arbitrary. Does this mean Larry "matches" the pots?

It doesn't make sense to me electronically to say the guitar is in phase and out of phase by adjusting the pots.:hmm
 

mikev

New member
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
1,124
I'm not sure this is correct. Mine sounds out of phase at any volume in the middle position. Perhaps what you're saying is that the treble and neck positions are normal, and the middle position is always out of phase.

Sweet looking guitar Mike V. It looks a lot like mine. I wish I had been able to afford a Les Paul when I had been playing for a year. Those were the Silvertone days!

That was the way that I thought Larry explained it to me.
That if I turned the volume to 10 on both in the middle position it was out of phase and any other volume setting would not be.
It's how it sounds on mine. If I turn the volume down to 9 on either one, it's back in phase.

Also, I can afford Gibson's as a newbie because I'm old (41), married to someone that is very cool and we don't have kids.
We can do whatever we want! :)
 

codeorama

New member
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
131
I have WCR p'ups in my LP Custom and had the peter green mod done.
The middle position sounds really cool. Its thin and nasally. I think it adds a very cool contrast to the other 2 positions as compared to the middle position w/o the PG Mod. I think its very worthwhile, I use it when gigging quite a bit.
 

Jurius

Active member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,399
That was the way that I thought Larry explained it to me.
That if I turned the volume to 10 on both in the middle position it was out of phase and any other volume setting would not be.
It's how it sounds on mine. If I turn the volume down to 9 on either one, it's back in phase.

Also, I can afford Gibson's as a newbie because I'm old (41), married to someone that is very cool and we don't have kids.
We can do whatever we want! :)

You call 41 old?:hmm Well, it's certainly old enough to afford a nice guitar. And welcome to the forum from one noob to another.

I hope Larry will chime in on this. I know it doesn't really matter, but my curiosity has been piqued. It doesn't make sense that increasing the resistance on one pot changes the phase of the guitar without a switch.
 

Ephlat

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
199
Here's my take - not authoritative:

In general, two devices are considered out of phase when they produce the same, or very similar signal, but one's signal is shifted 180 degrees, that is, at the same instant one is producing a "peak" in an electronic signal or sound wave, the other is producing a "trough". The effect is that some or all of the signal is canceled out by the two waves combining to zero (peak + trough = 0). That's what happens if on a stereo audio system if you flip the leads to one speaker - standing equidistant from the two speakers, a single tone will be greatly reduced.

The same applies to guitar pickups. If the positive/negative leads or the magnetic polarity are reversed for one pickup relative to the other, the signals from the two pickups will tend to cancel out eachother, BUT ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT THE SIGNALS ARE THE SAME. Just the fact that the two pickups are under different parts of the strings means that they can not be producing identical signals. Likewise, the more DISsimilar the signals are, the less "out of phase" they will sound, since there will be less signal cancellation ocurring. So that's why you'll hear the most out of phase sound when the two pickup's (actual) volumes are identical.

In reality, the pickups are always either in phase or out of phase based on the magnet orientation and wire direction, but you'll only HEAR the effect to the extent that the the signals are similar. Of course the very complex signals coming from each pickup - multiple strings each with many overtones at varying frequencies and amplitudes - produces varying degrees of signal cancellation/reduction unevenly across the frequency range, which ultimately results in the the tone we refer to as "out of phase". I know this is not a complete explanation, but I think it addresses the "equal volumes" issue.

Feel free to correct or clarify.
 

wil

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
3
All the best to the Corsa family. Congradulations Larry. :applaude
 

Jurius

Active member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,399
I did some experimenting with my guitar yesterday and it does indeed sound out of phase when both pups are at the same volume.

If both pups are on 10, the guitar is obviously out of phase. Then if I roll the volume of either pup back to 6 or 7, it sounds like I've switched to the opposite pup. IOW, if I'm in the middle position with both pups set to 10 the guitar has an out of phase sound. Then if I roll the bridge pup back to 7 it sounds very close to the same as if I had just switched to the neck pup only.

Go figure.
 

sgant

New member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
229
Go to http://www.cvguitars.com/LCPG-48/ and scroll to the bottom of the page; click on "middle position".

That's Larry playing that guitar in the middle position. He does this for all the guitars that are marked sold.

Cool....48 is the one I want too. Too bad I can't afford it now.

Tax refund in February hopefully, but I'm sure it will be gone by then.
 

GreenManalishi

New member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Messages
1,236
I'll jump in for a second just to say that Ephlat's explanation was excellent! Obviously, once the magnet has been flipped, the guitar is magnetically out of phase - totally and all the time, unlike using a push/pull pot, which electrically makes it in or out of phase depending upon the position. It is still technically out of phase, no matter if the volumes are different, but it won't have the distinctive "out of phase tone" unless the volumes are equal or very nearly equal.

Finally, again, I am grateful for all the well wishes on the birth of our boy, Shane. No, PaulSG, I never even thought of naming him "Peter," although I can understand that such a thought would be obvious! Anyway, here's a shot of mom and baby a day after his arrival. What a Christmas gift!
IMG_6404.JPG
 
Top